Adam: Hello and welcome to PwC Canada's newest podcast, Finance in 15, a series that explores finance transformation and what it means for leaders in the finance function. My name is Adam Boutros and I'm your host. Hello and welcome back to season two of the Finance in 15 podcast. My name is Adam Boutros and I'm your host. For our new listeners, Finance in 15 is a PwC Canada podcast that explores finance transformation and what it means for leaders in the finance function. Today, I'm very pleased to have PwC partner Jean McClellan, our national people and organization leader and workforce of the future lead, joining us to provide insights on how CFOs can build finance teams and provide opportunities for upskilling. Welcome to the podcast, Jean.
Jean: Happy to join you, Adam. It's great to be here on Finance in 15.
Adam: OK, well, let's jump right into it. I I'd like to start around our interview of Canadian CFOs for our recently launched Canadian CFO Insights report. In that we found that one of their top concerns was related to people and talent. They've really had to take a fresh look at their teams, think about what they want their teams to look like even in five years from now and what kind of skill sets and experience are they going to have to develop and recruit to look to that future? So maybe that's a good place to start. What are your thoughts on that, Jean?
Jean: We are seeing strong, strong demand for top talent in the finance function. So the world is changing so fast, you know, whether it's regulatory or compliance change, we're seeing technology changes, you know, impacts from the pandemic, a political upheaval, climate change and so really that is forcing a huge change in how people come to work and how they work. And finance professionals are knee deep in that as we look to the future. Their skill sets are changing and evolving over time. Now, you know, technical skills and knowledge of financial reporting and tax and the like will always be important, I think. But now more than ever, we're seeing transformational skills becoming equally, if not more important, you know. So these are capabilities like problem solving and persuasion. It's change, agility, all of those what typically you might think of as softer skills are the ones that are coming to the forefront.
Adam: So what are some examples of successful upskilling practices that you've seen clients implemented? How do you see the role of the CFO and helping to make that happen?
Jean: So that the CFO's that I work with are now having to think about those technical skills and transformational skills in their teams and so it's really critical that they think about new forms of learning. In many cases, it's no longer feasible to pull people into a classroom setting for days on end to get the learning they need. And it's really interesting because as we look at the forms of traditional learning that we've had, they're actually not that effective. So we're seeing a number of trends around changing learning methods come to bear on us as we go forward into the future. The first one is micro learning and it's becoming very prevalent. So this is breaking down technical learning and concepts into bite size pieces that individuals can consume over very short amounts of time. You know, five minutes, 10 minutes, maybe up to 20, as opposed to setting aside days on end for all at one time learning. And what happens when you use bite learning is those concepts tend to be easier to consume, they tend to be retained at a higher rate and so the effectiveness of the training technique goes up. The next one next trend that we're seeing is really self-guided and individualized learning plans. Those are really coming to the forefront right now. So most learning plans are designed as a one size fits all program right now. So think about the traditional training programs that you've taken. Usually you go to a webinar or you sit in a conference for a day. It is something that maybe, you know, 50 or 100 people might attend, and it is all the same for all of you. Well, now what we can look at through the use of new technologies and AI is a very strong capability in understanding where your individual skill gaps are and where you are learning gaps are. And then we can match that to those bite sized chunks of learning that I talked about. And so you can get to a very tailored program. So a third thing that I'm seeing is that concepts around applied learning. So often times when you think about all the training that's invested for a CFO and their teams, we haven't really thought about that as something we should measure return on investment for. But it is absolutely something that you want to be thinking about in that way. The things that are there to consider is that often CFOs are sending individuals to training programs. They send them off one at a time, and that is less disruptive for the business but again, not that great in terms of driving change or driving return on investment. So, you know, that person will come back into the business. There's not really a thought about how they apply it. And so it's only a few weeks that that person can potentially hold that information. So it starts getting lost. Even if they are able to apply it right away, their team members and teammates don't have that similar knowledge. So the ability to actually drive it across the enterprise or actually make meaningful change from that learning is eroded. So now what we're seeing is it's much more effective for teams to go through learning as a team. And then when we get to having the point in time when they come back to the business, then they actually work on an implied problem that is in their day to day work that they can immediately transfer that information to and work on together. And when we do that, we get better productivity, we get higher return on investment. We might get innovation that we didn't have before. And you know, results are showing that there is higher retention and engagement for individuals as well.
Adam: That is amazing. Yeah, you're really speaking to the CFOs and the finance audience here when we're talking about ROI attached to upskilling and learning. Excellent points there, Jean. You know, another topic certainly on the minds of CFOs is how to best approach the hybrid environment. So in our recent CFO survey, 65 percent of finance leaders agreed to some extent that remote working has had a positive impact. And you know, you were definitely seeing that across finance organizations everywhere. What's your perspective on the hybrid work environment?
Jean: The pandemic has been an incredibly emotional ride for all of us. So I think we've all been through a little bit of a trauma. And so it's important for us to get back to an analytical way of thinking through this. Because what I see a lot of leaders do is say, you know what, I really am craving being with my team in person or, you know, I know the connection is missing or I know our culture is eroding, so the immediate knee jerk reaction is to say, OK, let's just go back to the way it was. And it's important for us to stop understand what our teams need, understand what the direction is in the future and go from there. So when we look at the data, there's all sorts of interesting things coming out in it. First of all, generally people want to work in a hybrid way. So about 75 percent of our population would like to spend about two to three days in the office and the rest at home. However, people who are have been fully remote are getting more comfortable. And so while the people who prefer fully remote work is still small, it's growing. And so something to watch over time as we look for employee preferences to guide some of the things that we choose to put in our employee value propositions. Now there are huge variations within that data as well. So what we see as females in general prefer working from home, and that might be due to some of the demands that are generally placed on them. We're seeing members of the BIPOC community prefer to work at home. Some have cited things like being able to avoid microaggressions or, you know, they don't have to dress a certain way that they can dress in more traditional ways that they potentially haven't needed to or had to change to come into the office. And so those are interesting things that we need to explore. Now the important part is, even within those kind of directions and indications, there's huge variability even in those. So the key is to really understand your population. So what makes it up and what are those employee preferences and when you're a leader is sometimes that's not easy. Surveys can help. Conversations can help, but oftentimes when you're having this conversation, employees generally want to please their leader, so sometimes they can just tell you what you want to hear. So it's important that you're spending time to really dig into your employees feelings and that you're not succumbing to your own bias in this. So hopefully with that, it gives folks a little bit of indication. And if anyone is craving more data, we have a wonderful group of studies that are on our website that go into office workers and field workers. They talk about culture and what we're seeing in Canadian corporate culture versus some of our global colleagues. So there's all sorts of things that you can dig into if you want to learn more.
Adam: So the last part I really wanted to touch on today was this sort of widely experience workforce challenge around mental health. And so nearly half of respondents in our office worker survey claimed mental health issues have been one of their biggest work challenges. How do you think leaders can prioritize well-being in the virtual work environment?
Jean: There have been a number of mental health challenges that have come to the forefront as a result of the pandemic. We're seeing people struggling with mental health challenges every day in our work rate and I fear that. As I speak to CFOs across the country, I hear it really and every function within our business community. And it's important to have those conversations and to create that dialog, to create that support so that your leaders do have skills that will help them recognize those early signs. Have the conversations that will get people to a better place and really know when their role ends and when a professional should take over. Now there is a silver lining to this right that, you know, bringing the mental health issues to the forefront, I think has been a wonderful thing. And so we're building awareness, we're reducing the stigma. And it's for all of the challenges that we've been through, I think there's an opportunity for us to lean in and really support people in a different way moving forward.
Adam: All right, as we are getting to the end of our podcast, now is a great time for a top three list. How about top three areas companies should focus on when responding to these workforce challenges holistically?
Jean: I love top three lists. They're good. So let's get right into it. So first, think of the changes that are happening in the world of work as an opportunity to create competitive advantage. So this is where you need to pull yourself out of the firefighting and think strategically right to get ahead of it. So invest in your people, create those opportunities for innovation, add productivity and enhance profitability. When you invest in people programs in the right way, they can all drive these wonderful strategic outcomes for your organization. I would say the second way is just lean into new ways of working. So we are in a time where what got us here won't get us to success in the future. We have to change the way we work. We have to be more agile. We have to invest in new tech, learn new tools, change our leadership techniques and so embrace that change whole heartedly. Lean into it because what you get on the other side is amazing and you grow as a leader in an individual as well. And then finally, you invest in yourself. Leaders have been incredibly challenged over the last two years, so don't forget to put your oxygen mask on first. So you need to take time to recharge. You need to take time to learn and upskill and grow yourself as a as a professional. Because if you don't do that, then you can't be there wholeheartedly for your team. But when you do it and you are there wholeheartedly for your team, it's amazing that the change that it can make for the success of your team, the success of your business and your ability to attract and retain that top talent.
Adam: Very well said Jean. And this has been excellent. As usual, I always sort of come out of conversations with you with a new perspective and, you know, kind of seeing some light at the end of the tunnel because we certainly are having our fair share of workforce challenges across the finance industry in Canada. So thanks again for joining us. And if you would like more details on the Canadian CFO insights report or the Canadian Office Worker Survey reference throughout this podcast, just think a visit to our website for PwC Canada. We are definitely a community of solvers here, and we do believe that finance has an important role to play in helping organizations succeed. If you'd like to be part of our CFO community of solvers, please reach out to me and we'll get you involved in on our distribution list and joining our various community events. So I hope you enjoyed this second episode of Season two. We'd love to hear your thoughts on the series. Please be sure to subscribe and share by leaving us a rating or review. I'm Adam Boutros and this is Finance in 15. This podcast has been produced by PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP and is for informational purposes only. Contents discussed are for general guidance on matters of interest and should not be taken as professional, legal, business or investment advice.
