African Entrepreneurship- Episode 4

NextGen Talks - African Entrepreneurship

Welcome to episode four of NextGen talks, an initiative of PwC Nigeria NextGen club. My name is Chinasa Collins, and I'm the host for this podcast.

The annals of entrepreneurial ventures appear littered with false starts. And rather than engaging the rhythmic flow from an unbroken composition of music that folks can dance to, participants seem inundated by an awkward cacophony of ominous, sporadic sounds. 

This poetic expression of the peculiarities of entrepreneurship in Africa is an excerpt from the introductory chapter of the book titled in proceeds, journeys in African entrepreneurship, co authored by two friends, whom I happen to know and have interacted with in the course of my career. The book chronicles the entrepreneurship journeys, and as stated in the introductory chapter, aims to give a true and complete picture on what it takes to thrive in business on the continent of Africa.

Joining me shortly on this episode is one of the co authors of intercede journeys in African entrepreneurship, also sequel by idea to share his perspective on entrepreneurship in Africa, Oswald Osaretin is currently the senior Special Assistant to His Excellency, President Muhammadu Buhari on digital transformation. 

He is the lead on the Nigeria startup Bill NSB, a project that is strategic to the growth of Nigeria's tech ecosystem and digital economy. Oswald was just recently appointed as a director on the board of Edo innovates, the engine hub to drive technology and innovation in Edo state by providing strategic policy guidance, leveraging skills development, investment promotion, and tech advancements in the state. His ultimate goal is to influence the economic narrative of Africa for good through helping to build sustainable businesses that contribute to economic development, job creation, and also thrive inclusively in an interactive ecosystem. As an African who is passionate about addressing development issues. He believes that startups and SMEs must take the lead to unlock potential drive and sustain economic value on the continent. 

Before he comes in, please listen to our next and talks nugget for this episode.

The next gen talks nugget for this episode is north stars build businesses that last they select the right structure for their business and choose board members and partners wisely. Starting a business may be spontaneous, but down the line, the roles, responsibilities and equity structure of the business and even how to resolve conflicts must be properly delineated.

PwC: Welcome Oswald and thank you for coming next gen talk. 

Oswald: Hey,thank you. So it's good to be here.

PwC:Fantastic. Always. Have you ever been on this podcast?

Oswald: No, I haven't. But we've had a chat before.

PwC: Yes, we have.And I know you have known you for a while now. And it's interesting having these kinds of interactions. So I've known you when I was in banking, and both of us. Well, no, you were not in banking. You were my client?

Oswald: Yes, exactly. But I was supporting banks. So that's what's confusing. My business supports banks.

PwC: Yeah. Okay. So the next gen talks nugget for this episode was not all built businesses that last,  an excerpt from your book, actually, then select the right structure for the businesses and choose board members and partners wisely. Can you shed more light on that quote, which is an excerpt from your book before we proceed?

Oswald: So basically, I'll take that back a little bit to you know, wasn't Northstar. Very good, right, so North Star is somebody you look up to. So when we thought of the phrase, although I've heard it used in different ways, we actually picked it a baby in the prom, looking up at, you know, the mobile toys in the prom? Right? So that's going to be a constellation above you, right? So as adults working now, which kind of see ourselves with people above us that we look at and say, This is who I want to emulate on different things, right. So you may want to emulate you know, Mr. X on how he treats his kids, or you may want to emulate Mr. P on how he treats his wife. Yeah. And then you may have a mentor who you love how he runs his business and how he interacts with his staff. And that's who you emulate, right? So the idea that chapter was particularly saying, you know, put together a constellation for yourself, right, that helps set your path Is that what stars? Do? They help you set a path? Yeah. So it all kind of plays together, right? So you put together a bunch of people who are your stars, your north stars, okay? And actually helps you lead you to where you want to go. And you actually get to trim that constellation, depending on your direction changes. Right? Right. So when you're in banking, I'm sure there was one banker there who like, wow, when I come, I want to be her I want to be him, but then when you change into entrepreneurship, that personal is serves the purpose anymore. Exactly. So your direction has changed. So that's what we meant by that. So to answer your question more directly, is basically looking for somebody who has set up their business in a way that you admire. Right? Right. So we kind of gave some examples, you know, boards, of course, these are things you want to do for your company, right? When you have the right boards, you get the right feedback and right interaction board to executive interaction. You want to treat your staff well, right, and so forth. So it's key to look for people who have sat on boards and say, Okay, this is a kind of like, an age mate of mine who has been on several boards, right, I look, her as my Northstar. You know, if I ever get a board of that calibre, she's the first person I go speak to, and say, hey, you know, what should I do? Watch out for? What do you think? So she's like, she's been a North Star for a very long time. And that's something about  north stars, they don't have to be older. Right? She's She's actually my age, man. So exposure is different from my exposure, right? So from that perspective, I look at her as a North Star for a lot of things.

PwC: Okay, that's interesting. And I like the North Star analogy. And sounds to me, if we're going to just put that simply is like a mentor. Right? But then it's not a mentor, because you don't necessarily is it like, it's from a distance to someone you look up to? Learning  from afar?

Oswald: So the problem with mentorship is often misplaced. Okay. So what happens is that you have a North Star, you don't necessarily have to approach them. Okay. Right. So what happens in our environment in our marketplace is that people always feel the need to approach the North Stars. They make that a target. Yeah, like, Oh, that guy, I look up to him. So therefore, he must be my mentor. Okay, is that a bad thing? I wouldn't use the word bad. But I will say it's not very effective. So mentorship is about a relationship. Sure, right. And mentorship goes two ways. 

That people I call my mentor who I've done more for. Right, right. But the day that I actually need them that advice, that key advice that goes left or right, you know, that's a step in, so mentorship is about relationship. So it's rather difficult to mentor people if you don't understand them, if you don't develop a relationship, right? Otherwise, what's my advice based on rights? I have to know so you have to really know that this person you're speaking to, you're not at fault to some extent. So there's never one sided issue when it comes to say, Oh, my boss said today, like, what did you do? You have like a full Exactly. So you have to have a full picture for real mentorship. Right, not to say they're not different variants. I think that actually works for some people. But I think one of the key problems that we always feel like we need to approach are not stars, okay.

 Like the age-mate of  mine that I just mentioned. Yeah, she doesn't know she's my North Star. Right? I may have joked with her about it years ago, but it's not like this. There's nothing formal about it. But I know, in my constellation, when I look up in my consideration, this person is there. Right. And there are other people and some who have been trimmed away, and some other people have been added to it. So there's a distance to it.

PwC: Right? So what is it about, you know, the statement is north stars build businesses that last and my interpretation of that is only north stars, can actually build lasting businesses. What is it about a north star?

Oswald: So it's very personal to some extent. Okay. So it's a very strong statement saying north stars, right. So in the book was written for, you know, a range of people, right, right. When you say north stars, it's like almost telling the answer, right? Like not stars don't build businesses. So read the opposites, right. So north stars don't do business. They don't last. And they don't pick back up when they're bored. And they don't treat the staff terribly. Right. I think we had some parts of chapter we actually describe what we feel, you know, so there's a phrase in the book that says the faces of a North Star. Okay. Right. So it's kind of helping you along to say, try to find the character that you're actually attracted to the you believe is who you want to emulate? Right? Sure, right. Yeah. So this is not the time you're going to pull up the purpose. You're north star. Yeah, this is not the time you're going to pull up some very, I'm not saying you're going to do something aggressive or violent. But you have to have a certain mindset, right, that a certain Northstar may not match. So you better be pulling on that Northstar that you know that may drag at that moment Yeah, that's what you need for that situation. That situation. So you have various people, they're not all good people. Right? That's not the point. Yeah, right.

I think that will fit the situation, different persona.

Exactly. So that when you see clicks, I think they may be it's very easy to think most of us are nice people. That's what I was saying no. So for that Northstar, you're there for how he treats his people at work right. And he probably will be instructive for you to understand do why these two different very important just for you to understand why that is but but if you see how he manages his office, maybe there's something that you want to learn, right? So maybe a north star for a while, maybe not a long time. But just to give you that most of us are meant to be nice people. It's not that's not the objective. They're just meant to help you deliver the results that you're after. Exactly. Fantastic.

PwC: They're just meant to help you deliver the results that you're after. Exactly. Fantastic. Well, thank you for that clarity, that really did help. Okay, so I like to just ask you to share what you think the African entrepreneurship journey is about. And I ask that because the focus of this episode is how we can shift the narrative of entrepreneurship in Africa. And with your book, you know, the title is very active precedes journeys of entrepreneurship in Africa. So what is the African entrepreneurship journey? And how is it different from entrepreneurship journeys in other parts of the world?

Oswald: So, you know, one of the key things I tell people, I say that, you know, when you're doing business in Nigeria, and Africa, you building the very next step, right? So anybody, you know, somebody will say, Well, how is that different from Silicon Valley? Right? So you're creating something that never existed before. But it is the arena on our continent is rather different. So there's so many different examples of you can't pay rent for just one month. Right? So if you're trying to start the same business that you're doing in Silicon Valley, in the same business, Nigeria, in Nigeria, you're paying rent for the entire year or two years. Exactly. Right. You're doing all these things, right? While the guy in Silicon Valley can use this credit card to extend his capacity and ability. So some of these ideas came to me, I was listening to an entrepreneur, his guy who, I cannot say who he is, but he basically created an app everybody was using, right. And he was doing this talk where he was talking about how he started his business. And he mixed the route I want to do because I used the app myself, yeah, sure. I wanted to listen to him. I want to be inspired. And wrap the bat, he said something he said, Oh, when I started was so difficult. I was living off my credit cards. Click. That's nice. But listen. Right? Because I couldn't relate to that. Yeah, right. I mean, don't get me wrong. I have a sort of a dual lifestyle. I have credit cards, but you know, the, the trip doesn't really experience here, right? Doesn't really experience here. So, so one of the biggest problems that you know, what the book is meant to serve is that we're not telling our own stories. Yeah. So what happens is that our young crop of Intrapreneurs are now reading stories that don't apply to them. Right? Yeah. So I started my apple in a garage. We don't have garages, right. So in a garage is seen as a unit situation like, you know, the smallest if I want to say I started my business, the very smallest place in America. Yeah, a garage is just the way you is where you say, you know, musicians do. Garage Band, you know, they started that's it. For us. We don't have that, ours is village.

Exactly. So that right there is already the wrong story. But if we have more books, yeah, right. More books like this book.

PwC: So the person telling the story. Was he Nigerian? Or no, no. In his mind, yeah. You know,

Oswald: no, no, he's American. Tell the story in America. I was listening to YouTube or something like that. Oh, he expected to hear that he's no, but that's before I discovered this problem. Right. This is me looking for inspiration. Oh, I relate to that. Yeah, but But when I heard that, for something clicked in my brain, go ahead. This guy cant teach me much. 

So it's a case of the environment itself is different, and then you also have a lot of opportunities. Right? The adage that says, innovation is the necessities model of innovation is not exactly true here. Right? Because there's some things they just required. 

They just raw. Yeah. Like, you know, you need water. So are you innovative? Because you, we just need it because you cleaned up? What's in the bottle? No. So a lot of things are not really necessarily innovative. Right, right. But they were necessary, necessary and important. Exactly. So like in the book, we give an example. And this is in the videos we did before the book came out. One of my most favourite entrepreneurs, is people who charge phones, like that innovator. It's not innovative. what's innovative about putting power on the table and charging the phone is not

PwC: So what is innovation?

Oswald: Innovation is more so solving a problem. Right? So that sounds like exactly,  That's why I like the example because we could argue, yeah, it is because there's a niche, right is a business niche. Exactly solving the problem. You put together a table, he connected wires. 

How does that move us forward?

So beyond solving the problem, it has to lead us somewhere, right?

So if you are doing business in a place where things are not where they need to be, right and you're solving, that's what you brought me there, right? So basically, that's the problem. He's spending his time solving a problem that he shouldn't be solving where meanwhile, he probably could the guy that created a new battery. Yeah, yes. Yeah, I think he could be the guy who could have created wireless charging, he could be the guy who could have created a new way of creating new energy. But he's actually spending his time the first person who was reactive. We have a problem.

There you go. There you go. Yeah. So yes, it feels innovative, because he's solving a problem. But yes, I mean, powers created years ago, you just move on to a new medium, just don't get me wrong. It's amazing when I see it, you know, I, you know, I mean, I talk all the time, there are different levels of entrepreneurs. And the people who wake up every morning, to go just charge mobile phones, or wake up every morning and to go sell shirts. And then a row of other people selling shirts next to them are the real Intrapreneurs. Right? That is raw. Right? That is like, you know, you wake up every morning. Yeah, and the money you're going to make for today, you're going to make it today, if you don't make it today. That's it.

PwC: And that's entrepreneurship.

Okay, so essentially, what you're saying is the African entrepreneurship journey is basically defined by the environment. And as is with other claims. So the reason that we're able to tell this story differently is because our  experiences are defined by the realities of our environment. 

Oswald: Exactly. We don't have so much, and there's so much we need to do. So the introduction of the book, yeah, actually speaks to this section that speaks to focus. Right? So one of the biggest killers of the acronym entrepreneur is losing focus. Because there's so much to do.

PwC: I think it's too many problems to solve. Yes. And well, that's not a bad thing. So is the focus just being overwhelmed and not knowing which problem to focus on? Or is it that you get tired of trying to solve one particular problem, or you think the solution is to jump to the next?

Oswald: Well, I would say both, right. But what tends to happen is that we don't have a lot of human capital spread around. Right? Right. So if you're the entrepreneur, in most instances, even you yourself, you're not fully cooked. Right? Right. So you're trying to do five different things. You yourself don't have the capacity and you don't have a good supporting cast. Yeah, across all five things. Yeah. So look at me, with all my experience. Everything I've touched has not really turned to gold. Right? Yeah. Yeah. 

Well, because for different reasons, no business ideas fail. Okay. So like, right now, one of the things that I am pained about that I've not had time to get back to is that I started a foundation. Okay, right. Oh, sorry, a charity foundation. Right. And it was meant to solve the problem of small companies. Okay, doing charitable things. Right. Right. So when you're a startup, you don't have time. to really say, Okay, let's do CSR. Yeah, right. Yeah. So the idea of this, this small idea was now be the CSR for all these small companies so that if there's something that they started from the beginning, and it grows, they'll just put their name on it, right.

 So you give money or you give it to yourself or time, right? time or money. Yeah, right. Either you calm yourself with your team one Saturday. This company is already set up for you guys going to clean the bridge. Yeah, right. 

And your had your shirts on and you do it? And then you're going to put it on your website? To your social good. Yeah, exactly. So that was the idea. Right? and it has not gone anywhere, No time. Right.

So going back to broken focus is a case of because like you said, there's so many things to do. Right, we'll have to get used to the idea that you may not be able to achieve them all. And the time that was spent the time and resources that was spent doing that thing, in some situations can derail your business. Okay, right. So in my case, it didn't actually do my business what's not suffered as the great idea has not been executed, right? Just sitting there kind of nice, right? Right. That's what suffering but for some other people, you could very well be that it derails them from what they're supposed to be doing. Right? Right. So that's the problem. Right? So somewhere there's going to be a fail where you currently manage all these balls in here. And it's a case of actually snowballs as eggs is it so which one drops.

PwC: So what's the advice so how are you preaching focus to entrepreneurs if you say that's the problem.

Oswald: It is one of the problems but I would say it's critical to focus on what you're working on. Right if you believe so. You know, there's a number of things that that qualifies that just basically stay on track don't don't bounce around. If there's any other better way to say I mean, it's because the things are the sweet things to solve, right because you can wake up every morning and be the oil guy and then by afternoon, you are running a clinic here and by evening you're doing cargo.

PwC: That's what you do. Yes, that's me. Yeah. So many different parts. So different sectors and industries.

Oswald: Yeah, they they tied in. So you remember in the beginning this conversation, you said, should I introduce you with your government? Correct. And I said, I begin to learn that I'm living the reality of what I said I'm going to do. Right. Right. So it's not really different. It feels that way. Right? So a lot of times, you know, when people do things is driven by certain purpose.

So if I said years ago that I love Intrapreneurs. And I've always tried to help Intrapreneur Yeah. And I've been mentoring so many Intrapreneurs. And then I write a book. Right, right. And the book is to talk about entrepreneur. So when you may see that it's all over the place. There's a line that brings it all together. And then I take on this government role sabbatical, the government's policy, and the very first thing I'm doing is what now that bill to do it. So it's all in line, right? So but sometimes you don't see when it's forming. Yeah. It's like you're sitting in a rapids and you just take care of you. But if you are somewhat true to yourself,  you see what has formats.

PwC: Cool. I like that. So another interesting fact, in the book is he talks about SMEs being the backbone of any economy, but in Africa, they tend to become the ground that the corporation's walk on. And when I read this part, I could I mean, the example they gave was so interesting. And I would like for you to just, you know, expand on that in terms of what you mean by the big corporations working on SMEs? Well, I mean, it's in the book.

Oswald: So you know, you don't need one big company, or five big companies, you need hundreds 1000s of smaller companies. Right. So one of my more recent vision statements, as relates to the formation of the bill, the bill has been forming. And I've been interacting with the technical system is that I would love startups to start businesses and I started my startup in my village. Right. And not necessary to enter move potentially move. I like that. That's the narrative, right? Yeah, basically. So yeah, I want to start startups.

Yeah. So I sort of started with our villages. I want my startup started in my village. So and then not just to have unicorns? Fantastic. We have like five of them now. Yeah, let's move it to Seventy Something, India has something India in 2021 had 30 Unicorns. Wow. So the companies became unicorns in India in 2020. So let's grow a unicorns. But beyond that, let's have 1000s of smaller companies that actually are nowhere near unicorns, for hiring 20 people, 30 people, an increase in value in job creation.

Yeah. So now, when it comes to doing business in Nigeria, I mean, the book goes into it, you know, there's a lot of different problems from tax people to somebody come into your front gate and say you didn't clean the gutter, but they're supposed to clean to just all kinds of stuff, a lot of rent seeking. These are no secrets, right? We all know that. That is one set of problems. Now, if you speak to any entrepreneur, a lot entrepreneurs, they'll talk to you about just payments. Right? That's true, you will find that there's almost no Intrapreneur Well, let me not generalize, but a lot of Intrapreneurs will talk to you about, you know, they may not use the term cash conversion circles, right. But they'll give you an example of what they going through on cash flow. Yeah, that if you understand cash, commercial circles, you see what's happened to them. So this is actually in the book. I was sitting through a, you know, one thing that I put on the stand is that business is science. Right, and we just casually go into it. Yeah. And we never think that we need to study. Right? We don't read the right books. Yeah, right. Yeah. So you're not reading the right books, you're not studying and then you're wondering why you're having problems. Right? I read books that I am purpose read to solve the problem, like Okay, I think this is an issue. What kind of book would help have conversation with people and say, listen to this podcast, right? Read this book, Podcast have become something that is emerging, yeah, so this is the podcast of like, some business person, you know, like, this is business woman I just did listen to her podcast recently that I think most women should listen to, it is fantastic. Anyway, the GM lady,  Fantastic, okay. So, you know, you read this books to help you because it's a science and you really should study it. So here I am sitting in this, you know, a friend have asked me to the Harvard Business School meeting. And they had this Harvard professor that they all know he's famous, you know, I guess he's very insightful. And he starts to draw out cash conversion circles. And I'd never heard the phrase before because I go to business school, right? And I found myself almost alarmed. I'm like, that's what's happening to me. Right? So for those that don't know, Cash conversion circles is basically cycle actually is basically The period in between where you pay somebody and when you get paid, right? So if you are in a business where you basically get paid by a bigger company, and they do not pay smaller contractors, yeah, if the guy pays you 1 million, and then you have a set of payments of 200k. That middle, you know, the shorter you make it, the better for you. Of course, the longer it is the worst,  But when that's been done to you by a larger company, honestly, because they have cashflow problems, just because they they just will never pay you. And then they'll be drama and it is it destroys smaller businesses, of course, yeah. Is it one of the biggest problems? Like is one of the problems? We solved it? Smaller business will strive. Right? I mean, I just so many examples of you know.

PwC: But I mean, why, what is it about the large corporation? Is it out of just not taking the smaller businesses seriously, or just them also trying to manage?

Oswald: I think the case of them also trying to manage the cash flow. Okay.

But it may get to the point where it's not value generated. So I know people who, during COVID, closed part of their businesses, yeah, that's bigger companies will out. And if that business that, like, for instance, I'm thinking about the support business right now, it does support businesses not exists. Yeah, the support for the equipment they need, they need now go for a more expensive customer. Nobody's thinking about that. They just thinking, yeah, so if you are destroying this arm,  they need to be there to support you, you need at least to show up, right, immediately solve the problem. Now you have to start calling some hotline and getting support from wherever and they're not going to get it tomorrow because they have to fly in. Nobody weighs that out. So you know, spread that across.

PwC: So everybody never just sort of focuses on that one thing and not see the bigger picture

Oswald: there needs to be a sort of a payment system. Okay, so Payment is big enough to talk about it like we are right now. Yeah. Because I mean, most entrepreneurs I've spoken to once they start talking, when the payment thing because you just see this all the same reaction? Yeah. So I think there's enough of a need there to set up a payment system that makes payment happen, even if you just go after the contract.

PwC: When you say payment system, what exactly because I'm thinking, I have a small business "ish", and we do invoices, right. And then you get reminders. So if you issue the invoice to someone, you know, this is timed for them to get a reminder that you know, this list is pending. Is that like what you mean?

Oswald: No it is beyond that. So interesting. So this why podcasts are great. Right? So I just listened to a podcast, a podcast on cryptocurrency, right? So listen to it, okay. And they were talking about Ethereum. Frankly, ether. So before these things became asset classes, really Ethereum was actually developed as a blockchain contract. Okay, right. So you and I go into a contract, where we say, you know, I've done the service for you, and you're going to pay me, but we do it on a blockchain. Right? And I can see that using the blockchain, you can now instigate the payment. let me stop, because it's actually a very good idea. Right? So no, it's actually a good business idea. So we're not going to be doing it. So the thing is, right, the thing is that if you have a way of automating the payment, so it's not there's no human interaction. If the work is done, and you sign that is done, then your payment should be made. Right. Then also think about the hedging, because it's not even the is the work done on logic. It's not about the work done on the work done. Is the human parts then yeah. So if you also look at the part that people miss hedging, yeah. Right. So you get a contract contract is 400 million Naira. When you got the contract. 100 million now was $500,000. You start doing the work.

Naira Dollar does their dance and everything, the cost changes completely. Somebody should be hedging. Yeah. Right. Do you know currently, who hedges, the vendor? The vendors, one is hedging. And the vendor is not in the position to hedge. So that makes everything more expensive. Yeah. So if the laptop is really $500, you are forced to price 800 Because you know, between this time and then you get paid, he may shift. Yeah. So they should manage a lot of things would be cheaper If we had some kind of mechanism to say, looking at the Naira dollar, it's quite possible it's going to shift let's just, I owe you 3 million Naira. By the time our converted to FX, by the time  I pay you I still owe you 3 million, but I'll pay the value, the new value of what the converted FX is in the new Naira interesting. Nobody loses any money.

PwC: So why hasn't this happened?

Okay, that's interesting. So this is entrepreneurship in Africa, and we're getting some of the peculiarities. So would you say that this is something peculiar? Is it Nigeria? Is it Africa? Is it global?

Oswald: You know, I wouldn't dare speak for the world but I know that there are systems in place Yeah, I mean, I have vendors, you know, a number of European countries. And I know that I kind of owe them money. You understand? Right? Like, you know, I mean, you have credit. Right? I think England, I'm the only one that deals with this. But anyway, I think there's a system where you actually can report it.  So there are systems in place based on that. You can not just go around owing people money in England. Right. Once they put in the system, I think you can't even get credit from anybody else. Yeah, so that's part of the issue. Right? So it needs to be systemic.

PwC: Yeah. And that's why we have startup bill they do to influence this kind of things. Oh, guys, you know what I could go on? I think that maybe we have just a few more minutes for you to share a recommendation that you think in fact, two recommendations they think can foster successful and sustainable entrepreneurship in Africa.

Oswald: I mean, business is a science right. So respected for that. Right. Understand that, you know, the key difference between an entrepreneur and intrapreneur is risk. Right. That's the only difference. Right? So I can be an entrepreneur and I come work for African Business Radio. Right. It doesn't mean that I'm actually African business video game from my intrapreneurial, you know, approach to things, right. That's a great hire. Right.

But the minute I go out, and you're exposed and decide that I'm going to do an idea is a statement, right? It's a very strong statement that says that this thing that I'm about to do, is I have a vision for who is going to feed me. Right, very basic. Right. So it's important that you understand that is a risk thing. Okay, you're taking a very big risk.

And the risk being that you starve to death is principal. Okay. Right. So I make jokes all the time. Like, you know, I've been doing this for 15 years, a company for 15 years, and waking up every January. Let's go again. Right. seems insane. Yeah. Right. And of course, you know, other things life moves on. Yeah, building the family on this, you know, a number of other things. So I would say that, you know, it's critical to one, understand why you're doing it. Right. I wouldn't say has to be part of your purpose. And I think yeah, know, the word is I think I think the purpose thing, you know, I think sometimes you have to go through a number of things to get experienced with what your purpose is be one of the things on your belt. Yeah.  Right. And then I think it's also really important that you understand your environment. Very important. I agree. Yeah. So it's critical that you understand your environment. I think everything else falls into that.  right. So you understand why you're doing it. And then you also understand the environment you're operating in. So this brings in the whole idea of VUCA. And, you know, yeah, you know, what level of volatility you're going a with level complexity. So, if you take that common sense that look, no, this is what I'm dealing with, is the environment. I'm doing it in, operating in this way.

So this brings in the whole idea of VUCA. And, you know, yeah, you know, what level of volatility you're going with level complexity. So, if you take that common sense that look, no, this is what I'm dealing with, is the environment. I'm doing it in, operating in this way.  I want references when I came to Nigeria to start my business. It is something that I had passion from when I was working in Goldman Sachs, Goldman Sachs, looking Nigeria, I said, Wow, I see the opportunity. What am I going to do? So I started taking frequent trips coming to Nigeria, I mean, I come in April to Nigeria, and, you know, I come to Niger for a weekend. Yeah. You know, learning. Yeah, meeting people, right. So you have to be intentional about it. So meeting people, learning environments with this business makes sense. Who else is doing it? And so forth. Before you take that step? Even taking that step? It wasn't me taking that step. I came in, I took a job. Why? Because I still needed to understand the environment. Learn who said what, who offers the service, where the opportunities in the market? Yeah, who's not doing what Yeah, right. Yeah. And 15 years later, yeah, we're still doing the same set of things I wanted to do. Yeah. When I was a much younger person, you know, being overpaid.

PwC: I mean, so what I hear you say is know why you're doing what you're doing. Understand the lay of the land, and especially, you know, this to a very important thing.

Oswald: It's a science. If you treat business in the art form, yeah, you'll get in trouble.

PwC: But is it not a combination?

Oswald: The art of business, yes, the fluidity of it, the beauty of it, and so forth. Yeah, but it's really driven by science.

That foundation is like art, you know, art students are actually very good mathematicians. Yeah, people, If you find a lot of artists, because when you start doing proportionality on a piece of board, math in real time, but they are thinking of it that way, they may not be but you would run into people who actually know the connection. Yeah. Right. Like brilliant ideas, but they want to think Yeah, right, like I paint and I'm pretty good at math.

Host: So interesting. Well, thank you very much. That was fun and enlightening. As always, it's always good to have These conversations with you. Thank you for sharing with our listeners and our listeners thank you for listening to this episode of Nextgen talks. 

Catch you on the next episode.