Podcast transcript: Episode 30- Future of Architecture - Designing the Workplace of the Future

Host: Welcome to the Experience Pod where we focus on emerging technologies trends. And their impacts on the Nigerian and African business landscape. My name is Sylva Ifedigbo, senior manager and head clients and markets development here at PwC Nigeria. As we stand at the crossroad of emerging technologies, shifting work patterns and evolving social dynamics, we are witnessing a transformation.

In the way we perceive and interact with our work environments, the future of work is rapidly changing, and architects play a crucial role in crafting spaces that cater to these new realities. The swift widespread transformation to remote working brought about by Covid 19 sparked an international discussion regarding the function.

Of the workspace. Business executives now have a once in a century, if you like, chance to fundamentally redesign the workspace and boost productivity as a result of the emergence of new methods and locations to work equally. The great resignation and the whole new idea around hybrid working. As produced a lasting influence on how the workplace of the future would look, feel, and operate, especially in a post covid world in order to attract and retain the best talents in today's world, especially with the competition and race for skills, businesses and decision makers, urgent gently need to design spaces that  are flexible.

Employee-centric and prepared to support them. In this new world of work, architecture and design will become more and more crucial as the workplace of the future takes on a new ship. In response to the continuous transformation of the working environment, by understanding and foreseeing trends and emerging technologies, architects and designers can create.

Very creative workspaces that answer those questions and tick all the necessary boxes. This changing needs of the business and individuals in the workplace presents. Great innovative architecture examples of workspaces are the Bullitt center in Seattle, known as the Greenest Commercial building in the world shows architects are very innovative.

That building incorporates renewable energy sources, energy efficient technologies and green building materials to create work, a workspace that minimizes environmental impact. Another great example is the headquarters of Microsoft in Redmond, Washington has enabled a flexible activity based workspace design that allows employees to choose the environment that best suits.

Their needs, promoting productivity, collaboration and increasing of course a good feel at the workspace. These are a few examples of workspaces and how these workspaces are evolving, but back home here in Nigeria, we also have great examples of workspaces that combine both Innovation and this thinking of the future.

A great example, space Finish, which has evolved and redefined workspaces from the traditional offices that we all know. Space Finish has brought in innovative thinking that goes beyond just the aesthetics of workspaces to designing and building workplaces that aligns with the organizational purpose, mission, and strategy.

In a bid to boost performance of their staff. Sitting at the helm of affairs is Remi Dada, the CEO of Space Finish a Design-Build Nigerian company, specializing in office interior architecture, gear tour building, innovative and collaborative workspaces that redefine the way workspaces and offices look and feel.

Was bridging the gap between onsite. Offsite and hybrid workspaces. In essence, designing and building places that define the future of work. It's now my pleasure to welcome Remy Dada to experience pod. I'm welcoming you back to one of your spaces. How does it feel to be back here?

Remi Dada: It's actually a pretty good design.

Just walking around, sitting back down memory lane and just felt like I was experiencing a game for the first time.

Host: Great. Great. We're very pleased to have you here again. I'm glad to be here. Great. So let's start with some background, really. Why architecture? Why this area of architecture? What really inspired you to start space finish?

Remi Dada: So from a very early age, I've always been very interested in creating something out of nothing, but also creating things that I felt influenced how people experience the world. So naturally I started architecture and I practiced in the States for a couple of years. But an interesting part of the story is I actually quit architecture. I left architecture,

Host: wow.

Remi Dada: In 2008, mainly because I just felt like there was also a lot of design talk without the business solutions to it, and I just felt as a result, it wasn't a career path that I felt was going to empower me to. Drive impact. So I left and I quit and I was done with it for good forever.

Host: So what brought you back?

Remi Dada: And then I went to business school to get my mba. Ended up working for Google.

Host: Yeah,

Remi Dada: worked for Google for about six years, and within my capacity working at Google. I got to experience what a truly amazing workspace design is as I got to travel across different Google offices across the world.

And I had the opportunity to redesign the Google office in Nigeria because at that point in time, the office was not reflective of what we expect of Google Office globally.

Host: Okay.

Remi Dada: So according to doing that, and that led us down this journey.

Host: Great. So from studying architecture, quitting at some point, coming back to it to the present day, what has changed in the way designs are made?

Remi Dada: Architecture has been around for thousands of years.

Host: Yeah.

Remi Dada: all the way back to the coliseum or the great pyramids and. The core essence of it hasn't changed is about shelter for humans.

Host: For humans, yes.

Remi Dada: It's about protection. It's about a space where people can be productive, right? That hasn't changed.

So the core never changes, but what has happened is everything has changed in our own world and how we react to it.

Host: How do we react, okay?

Remi Dada: So in the sense of if you zone into workspaces, right? We know that. Pre pandemic, the way people function in offices was very different. So if we go back to pre pandemic, the way people function in the office is very different. And now, as

Host: Yeah,

Remi Dada: the whole world has changed. So as a result, a good design frame has to adjust to those changes.

Host: Interesting. Yeah. We're going to actually, is that something I would love to discuss with you? How a design of spaces has changed, following the pandemic. We now think of our lives pre and post pandemic, but before we get there, I just wanted to know, since starting space finish, what has the journey been?

So far. I remember you celebrated your fifth anniversary last year.

Remi Dada: Yeah.

Host: Congratulations and

Remi Dada: thank you. Five years old.

Host: Yes.

Remi Dada: Space Finish has been a, it's been a very fulfilling and interesting journey because for one, we get to work with clients like a PwC. We get to impact how the many talented people that work in the organization achieve their goals, and by proxy.

How PwC impacts its customers, so we are seeing the work that we're doing being amplified through our customers, and we've gone on a very interesting journey with the different clients that we've worked with. We've also got to do things like the airports. We've done two international airports.

Host: Interesting. Yeah.

Remi Dada: And the way we always measure our success is by the impact. So to date we are counting, millions of people have gone through the airports. They have experienced work experiences they have had a positive impact on. And then many corporates from the tech startups to the large scale companies in the tech space like the Googles and the Facebook and the Twitters getting to work with these kind of clients.

And understanding the impact they are doing for their customers allows us to feel a very strong sense of fulfillment.

Host: Mostly. Yes. I fly through the international airport and I've experienced one of those spaces just as I'm experiencing the PwC experience Center as well. So I'll put that in summary to say to you, you don't just create spaces, you enable businesses to help them achieve their goal. Brilliant. But then in coming up with your creative process your design concepts and all, what is the process like? Do you just maybe sleep and you wake up and Yes, you got it? Or is there some kind of serious brainstorming and ideation process with your team that goes into it?

What's the, is there an Intuitive process? How involved is the client and all of that?

Remi Dada: In coming up with this amazing podcast, how did you put it together? Okay. I'll

Host: I'll go back to question. You turn right back to me, right? Yeah. Oh God. I have a fantastic team. I work, I worked. So you have,

Remi Dada: and your team, you guys work together and of course work together.

Same situation. Great. I have a fantastic team of people, right? Architects, engineers, developers, different folks, and together we. create.

Host: create.

Remi Dada: It's the same it's the same process that you guys go through.

Host: great. So now, we talked about Covid earlier and I, I want to go, into it now, how has designs changed, given the change in the, in, in how workspaces operate, right?

And human behavior and your workspace. So how has that impacted the design of workspaces?

Remi Dada: We all know Covid was a very challenging and bad. The end has happened and through that the world has evolved and changed. Now, the interesting thing that I always think of is, prior to Covid, let's say that architecture as a whole globally was way ahead of places within Africa.

The ethos of design in Africa has always been one, but I'll say over time was probably lost say to mimic what we saw in the Western world. Sure. But it's safe to say that there was, they were more advanced. Especially workspaces. See what the pandemic did, was it reset? Everyone was back to ground zero

Host: taking came back to

Remi Dada: Right.

And cause we're all back to ground zero. You know the other thing that's quite in, in interesting, nobody knows what the heck they're doing.

Host: Oh, wow.

Remi Dada: All the big companies, small companies, no one knows what they're doing.

Host: Okay, so the pandemic revealed that, or made forced that

Remi Dada: The  pandemic threw in a very unique problem that no one had, ever experienced before, and everybody was forced to try and the keyword is try to solve it and it was a problem That was a moving targets.

So it was, there's a point where it was fully remote because of health concerns and there were times where people needed to come back to the office. How do we get them to come back? And there was people saying, I don't want to come back. I want to come back. And there were people saying, I hate being at home.

I'm now depressed. And people were saying, we need to go back to the office cause we're losing productivity. So the target has always been moving. But the interesting aspect of how Space Finish has approached this is we've approached like a social experiment. The social experiment because you have to try out things and learn what is working and what's not working because no one has fully solved the problem and all the content that is created in the western world.

Guess what? Doesn't always apply to us here in Africa, right?

Host: Yes.

Remi Dada: Fully remote doesn't work here because when you get home, guess what? There's NEPA.

Host: There's NEPA

Remi Dada: There's no Wifi

Host: with that the infrastructure issues. Yes.

Remi Dada: And come to the office every day. The challenges with that is now fuel scarcity.

Host: fuel scarcity.

Remi Dada: Yes. So we have a very unique problem.

Host: Yeah.

Remi Dada: So we have to be very original with how we solve it, and we've taking it a more social approach.

Host: And don't, just speaking to that how. How much influence or how much of the local situation do you now bring into your designs?

I remember when we were working on the experience center, PwC Experience Center, a particular about having an Afrocentric touch to it. Does that influence the designs you do for clients within this environment?

Remi Dada: So one thing I always tell our clients is I can remember when I first, our first project that we did was the Google office.

Our next client was Andela.

Host: Yeah.

Remi Dada: The the tech startup at that time, Andela was asking us for, we want an office like the Google office. We kept telling them that we can't give you an office like the Google office, but you know what we can do? We can give you an office like the Andela office,

Host: which would be yours, eh,

Remi Dada: which would be yours, and it'll be original and it'll be a reflection of your true identity. And that's what we do. So remember that PwC had a specific goal you wanted to achieve?

Host: Yes.

Remi Dada: And an Afro futuristic, an Afrocentric solution was in line with the goal you're trying to achieve.

Yes. So we try to understand what is the customer trying to achieve, and from a visual standpoint, does it require us to go this route or this route? And the solution is always in line with the problem we're trying to address

Host: Great. Very solutions driven, right? Yeah. Okay. Now diversity and inclusion for use of both terms now, pretty much a buzzword, but very important for most organizations now especially as organizations gets, more diverse workforce. There is the need to, for architects and designers to be more inclusive. Right and take care of those those expectations. Alright, so how can architects in this age, given these requirements, try be more successful at achieving this from your experience?

Remi Dada: The interesting thing is people treat diversity in the workspace, like an added benefits. And what I've always thought about, or they treat it as something that they have to accommodate the sense of accommodation. Let's accommodate different people. Yeah. And we need to start to change our thinking. It should become a superpower.

Host: Okay.

Remi Dada: The more diverse your team is, the more wider range. The spectrum of thinking within your organization is right. Yes. The uniqueness of the talents that allows you to approach a problem from different angles and allows you to come up with a better solution than a team that's very siloed, right? Yeah. So we believe that diversity is a superpower. And as a result, it's about being inclusive to people who are di who are from different, whether it's your culture is your gender, is your, is where you're from.

Host: I was also looking at maybe disabilities issues Yeah.

Remi Dada: what language you speak. But, and there's a huge role that designers play in that, right? Yeah. You can design an office. We, so we've done projects for companies that were pan-African and we ensured we were inclusive. In the Pan-African nature. Cause you know, Naija always feels like Naija is Africa, but that's not the case. So you do things and you're including other African regions and when people and employees across Africa come to these offices, they feel more included.

Host: You're welcome.

Remi Dada: So we have a huge role that we are playing in how people feel, welcomed, feel at home. And when they feel at home is when they can give their best selves to the organization.

Host: Great, There, there is this phenomenon called the Japa syndrome. In, in, what's that?

Remi Dada: what's that? Haven't heard about this. Can you please elaborate?

Host: I'm sure you do, right? We're dealing with organizations that are bleeding talent. Let, lemme put it down.

Remi Dada:Yeah.

Host: Talent retention is critical for businesses at this point. We used to say maybe our competitor for talent, we had other big four or big consulting organization. Right now your competitor is maybe Canada or Australia or Germany or something.

Remi Dada: That's a very tough competitor.

Host: Exactly. So what. There is a thinking that the place the spaces where people work could, and the experience they have working in those spaces could help them in thinking less of living those organizations. So essentially that the space where you work Can't help with talent retention for organizations. Okay. What do you think about that? And has that come into play in your design, especially post covid?

Remi Dada: Okay. Let me keep it real with you. So you see this japa thing all I know you are Japaing tomorrow. I know the guys in this room are about to japa. Yeah. You guys are processing your visa, right? I think that. It's a problem that is very deep within the country, right? There's a strong responsibility on the government right now, and that's just being real, right? There's socioeconomical problems that make people look for pastures. Yeah. Whether that's healthcare, whether it's security, those things. Are not always things organizations can solve. So let's just be very quiet on that and not give the audience a rosy situation. Let's just keep it real. Sure now, but there are roles that companies can play to reduce, not eliminate, but produce.

Host: Yeah. To reduce, yes.

Remi Dada: Another issue that companies face is companies are always talking about how do I keep my people, how do I keep my people so they can work for me more and make me more money? Keeping it real. That's what companies want exactly. I think companies needs to be asking themselves what things should we do? So people want to stay. It's different mindsets. How do I keep my person versus what things do we do so the person wants, so that they want to stay, to actually stay? And in people wanting to stay, I think that it really comes down to a sense of belonging. It comes down to what the workspace would mean is exactly. Okay. And it's not just design. It's when you go to work, do you feel like you're growing? Do you feel like you're a community within a community? Imagine a workspace that's also functioned in some parts of the workspace as an art gallery where the public comes in, or an open lecture hall where the community comes in to learn. And you can interact and you can be part of the community. Or a place that is invested in your growth, not just your professional growth, but your personal growth or a place that is really thinking about your health and wellness. Where you have meditation rooms, you have nursery rooms for parents who just have new kids, right? You have, it's not about lifestyle. Now. So this lifestyle things can make you feel more connected to an organization and make you feel that you're part of a community and may make you be more optimistic about what the future holds. And you might want to stay but there's a limit problem that's a lot bigger than that is more so regarding the socioeconomic challenges of the country. Or people that might have been on the fence might now choose to stay because of the experience they have.

Host: because of the experience or delay their living

Remi Dada: or delay their living.

Host: I, why do I feel like Remi just gave some serial HR tips for retaining people. Yeah. Oh, okay. Thank you so much. Very good. Great insights there. We're hoping the, there was just a transition some days ago perhaps that social, economic and political environment could be better. And so that Organizations that also investing in engaging and, innovative workspaces can then retain their talents even more. Yes. Or at least delay the speeds with which they exit.

Remi Dada: And also, one thing I used tell people is if you have an organization and people at Japaing and your company is dying, then you also have a problem with your systems within your organization. You don't have a lot of continuity built into your organization. So that's neither here nor there, but there's that to also consider

Host: What has been your experience at Space Finish? Have, has your

Remi Dada: Japad, my people have jacked, right? Yes, they have. But one thing we always say is we have an alumni community.

Host: Great.

Remi Dada: We have a very active alumni co community that is still with us. With us in different ways. Yeah. With us from a mentor, the mentor people who are currently within the organization, they act as sales advocates for us advocates, and we get jobs based on the strength of how positive the experiences have been. They're working. Yeah. Most importantly, they help with continuity. People let us know. Which is taboo. Most people don't wanna let companies know. People let us know ahead of time that they're leaving. When they're leaving. Okay. They help us find the replacements. Replacements, yeah. They help us screen and screen to ensure that they are the right person. They help us onboard and they stay communicated and committed even when they're not around.

Host: Okay.

Remi Dada: Because people are thinking they don't want to break what they've built. And if you're building something and people are really empowered, you want to break what you built. So you want that continuity,

Host: the sustainability of it.

Remi Dada: And as soon as we realize that japa was less of a problem, it was more so our systems, because you can't prevent that fully.

Host: You can't prevent that. Yeah.

Remi Dada: More so our systems on how this continuity and the impact is less. Okay.

Sylva Ifedigbo: Let me go into speaking about technology, and their relationship with designs. Lemme start by asking is there a room? I know, still speaking about Japa now for perhaps some of your best talents to have left the physical environment. but still work with you and, with technology enabling that process is that an experience? that space finish has explored, or what maybe other design and architects might want to use.

Remi Dada: Asking for our secret formulas that make us successful as a business

Host: we're looking at how technology can enable such. So an arrangement.

Remi Dada: I always told people that ideas are very cheap, so I'm never scared to give ideas.

Host: Great

Remi Dada: execution is what is very important

Host: execution is what makes the difference. Yeah.

Remi Dada: So the things that we do is we. We first, we build databases of content that allows for easy deployments. So that's one. We build systems. We use systems that make our work very dummy proof, and anyone should be able to pick up our systems and implement deployment. Yeah. And we ensure that no one is holding all the knowledge within the organization.

Host: Okay.

Remi Dada: It's not for you to retain and holding in your mind, it's. Documented, it's on paper, it's on systems, it's deployed with technology in the way that is easy, that allows for productivity. And then we have a robust freelance community now because we have a robust freelance community. You can be anywhere. We have old team members who left who are like, do it. I want to freelance. And the freelance. And because the systems exist, it's easy for them to plug into it because we've already prebuilt the systems.

Host: So great.

Remi Dada: We have, in fact, we have something as space manage that we called the Japa Initiative.

Host:  Oh wow.

Remi Dada: And the Japa Initiative. I'm sure my head of people are, be laughing right now. the Japa Initiative is something that made us say you cannot prevent Japan from happening, but we can reduce how it impacts us as a business. It impacts

Host: It impacts you as a business. Great stuff. Remi is sharing serious nuggets in this podcast. Really? Okay. The Internet of Things. We know that I, iot smart technologies are becoming increasingly prevalent in Modern architecture, we think or believe, that the future of workspace could have that seamless integration of these technologies, improving overall efficiency and sustainability of of buildings and spaces. In what way do you think the internet of things and smart buildings will be integrated into designs and architecture of the future? Our workspace is to create, more efficient, sustainable, and adaptable environments. And how practical is it in our environment here?

Remi Dada: So the internet of things is old.

Host: Okay.  

Remi Dada: it's not new.

Host: It's so not new

Remi Dada: It's not new. It's old. Is yesterday. Okay. Where we are going to is. Intelligent buildings, okay? Intelligent buildings that are sentient, that can grow and adapt with the people within the building, right? The buildings can address themselves. The buildings can self repair themselves, right? The buildings are evolving. With the needs.

Host: They are living things,

Remi Dada: they're living thing and they're evolving with the needs of IT occupants. That's where we are going to so IOT is more so I like think of IOT as it's a function, but with the data that IOT gathers is where you can now begin to bring in ML and ai to begin to actually predict human behavior. And because you can predict human behavior, there is endless possibilities. We been have having access to that data and what you can actually do, and then if you give a design company like space, finish all that data. There's a lot that we can do and there's an example.

Host: Okay.

Remi Dada: That includes one of your competitors, but I won't mention their name. Okay. Let's just say that there are the big four. Yeah. Okay. So they call SpaceFinish and they were complaining that, dude, we need more meeting rooms. We never have meeting rooms. We need a bigger space X, Y, and Z. And we asked for the data log from their meeting rooms. Cause they have this access panel.

Host: Panel Okay.

Remi Dada: Where you can log in.

Host: Okay.

Remi Dada: And what we realized was quite interesting, we that Monday to Thursday, no one's in the office, they go to the customer's office as consultants do

Host: from the sites. Yeah.

Remi Dada: And they all come back on Friday. Okay. And they fight for meeting rooms. So it's not that they don't have enough meeting rooms, it's just that the way the spaces have been allocated is not in line with how people are operating

Host: behavior. I see.

Remi Dada: The behavior. Exactly. So what we did was meeting rooms, do anyone meeting rooms? Just office spaces. That could be office spaces. So when they came back, those office spaces. The meeting rooms , allowing them more capacity and minimizing the expense of acquiring more real estate. Now imagine you layered artificial intelligence on that and it was telling you this information. With out you having to call space finished. And not only was he doing that, it was also repurposing the room for you before you even asked for it. So that's where we’re going to

Host: that's where we're going to, yeah. Intelligence pieces now. Yeah. Alright. And that's just from the example you've given, it's, it is a whole lot of analyzing data, reviewing space utilization and all of that. I guess that's what would you be seeing to a designer or an architect listening to the post to this podcast who is not yet thinking in this direction?

Remi Dada: So the challenge with architects is the reason I left architecture in the first place. See, architects feel, what's the nicest way I can say it? Architects feel like they've been prescribed a role to play and they are not allowed to step out, out.

Host: They are these rules. You just have to do it this way.

Remi Dada: And it's more so how the system is built for the benefit of the people who built the system right to the detriment of. The architects. Now what I say all the time is I'll speak for myself because we are trying to drive business impact. We need to play a different role beyond the role that an architect

Host: traditional architecture

Remi Dada: We need to be part of the conversation when the business people are deciding that they need the projects, when they're deciding what to acquire the land. We need to be part of that

Host: from day one. Yeah. or day zero,

Remi Dada: or day zero. Yeah. When a client has a business problem and they think that an architect is going to solve the problem and they have gone to a PwC, and the PwC has said, this is what you need to do. Yeah. We feel we're too late in the game because then we're just giving instructions to just execute. Okay. Just, okay. We need to be in the place where we are saying, what is your business problem? Is it a retention problem? Is it a sales problem? Is it a culture problem? Is it a communication, collaboration? Whatever it is an innovation. Like you guys, this was an innovation space. Yeah. Problem. And we need to put on our business hats. And step outside of our design roles and understand that design thinking is transcends just physical designs. Yeah. Sketching designs of systems, and then we need to attack the problem from that direction. And when we do we are truly providing value. We do. So the client is forced to reconcile how they perceive. The role of the role an architect. I would like to think that my clients don't see us as an architectural practice.

Host: So what do you, lemme just quick question. What do you identify as architect, designer? How do you describe yourself?

Remi Dada: We just see ourselves as solutions provider for businesses, right? I like the solutions that we provide. That involve, that would not even be, it doesn't involve us creating a space, a sketching. It's created systems that allow businesses to create multiple spaces across many locations. Requested systems that allow companies to figure out how to move back into the office. Post pandemic. Post pandemic, yeah. Because it's about human beings and understanding the different stages that which they go through, how they think to create systems that solves their problems.

Host: Okay. One, one buzzword, I think a few months it looks like Chat GPT just exploded and everybody here, Chat GPT ai and all of that. I'm looking at Some ai systems that can do designs. And we were just having a chat on how they could also learn people's voice and all of that. Might take away the sets that we are on right now. How is that a threat to your profession?

Remi Dada: Do you know what the Abacos is? The Abacus? Yes.

Host: Is that the first, very first, yeah. Counter, right counter. Yeah.

Remi Dada: I'm very sure. Back in the day, there was a guy who was the guy for counting, who was the expert of counting, and the abacos came and displaced

Host: and or maybe him look

Remi Dada: could have display personally, person, mental state, could have displaced him or could have empowered him. Empowered him. And then we go on and look at calculators. Remember when I was in primary school, I had to learn the Times table.

Host: Times table Yeah. At the backup of the notebook.

Remi Dada: Yeah, Very pointless thing to do. I don't know, maybe if I'm stuck on an island I might need that, but right now, today we have calculators in our watches and our phones every, so it didn't displace the person calculating, it empowered people and give people more tools. You look at Excel. an Excel, I'm sure you use Excel spreadsheets, right?

Host: Sure, yes.

Remi Dada: It empowered people. Technology always empowers people. It just depends on what side of the lane you choose to stand on. If you choose to stand on side of the lane where you feel that your contribution was just this activity that technology is replacing, then you are obsolete. But if you're looking at this as a tool, That allows you to solve a problem, then you are heavily empowered. If I had a software and I could press a button and it can give me different iterations of a floor plan, guess what? I can solve the problem a lot better. I can spend more time thinking about other aspects of the problems that I would have to just have crunch in, given my limited timeline. I can think about more things that are more personal, things that are more that more branding related. Branding, so many things that you can do

Host: with that time.

Remi Dada: With that time. So I, for one, I'm super excited.

Host: But your staff might not be because if you have a button that you can press and gives you the design, you might be taking away someone's job

Remi Dada: and then that is the statistician on what side of the line they want to stand on. If remember, as I studied architecture and I never prescribed, I never, I was never fully aligned with the road or the box that they said I should play in place you in. Yeah, I was always thinking about the problems that the walls needed to be solved. So it's an individual thing, it's how you see it. It's how you see it and the value that you think you're bringing to the table.

Host: How you convert that trait into maybe an opportunity for you

Remi Dada: Exactly.

Host: To Evolve. Okay.

Remi Dada: So look, technology is doing what tech wants to do. Look, we live in a capitalist environment and money is going where

Host: money wants to go.

Remi Dada: Money is going towards productivity.

Host: No emotions,

Remi Dada: it's true. Money is going towards productivity and human beings must to be more productive so they can solve their problems and they can have better lives. And you have to ask yourself if you are standing in the way of technology, you're going to lose if you're embracing and adapting and

Host: evolving

Remi Dada: and figuring out the problems that this tech allows you to solve. Then you're gonna do amazing things. And that's why I'm excited about the AI revolution.

Host: Great. I think the point work is embrace, adapt and evolve, right?

Remi Dada: Yes.

Host: Great. Now, but with everything technology, comes the issues around cybersecurity, security. People need to feel safe. Systems need to be safe. Data needs to be safe and all of that. So is this something that these architects and designers should be taken into consideration especially as we evolve into this in intelligence, era of intelligent buildings and how can they do this effectively?

Remi Dada: I think absolutely. The funny thing with innovation is, Innovation helps you solve your problems, but it helps you create new problems.

Host: Exactly.

Remi Dada: And that's just how you never solve, you just exchange two slightly better problems. And that's what you're talking about. Because if, yeah, everything gets digitized and buildings are now super intelligent and IOT is what it is. And I'm capturing dates, all that stuff. Yeah. The security is not a problem because you can be hacked. You've had a lock on the door. You couldn't have my lock on the door, but now if I have a digital pad, you can be Hack

Host: You can do that. Yeah.

Remi Dada: So to answer your question, I think designers absolutely have a responsibility in this area. I think that there are so many interest and exciting things that are coming in the future. One is integrating biometrics into buildings in a way that we haven't thought of before. So yes, we know those fingerprints, scanners, but there could be iris scanners, there could be hard heartbeats beats that, that measure your unique heartbeats. There could be different things that could be part of the architecture. They might not even be as visible to you. You might just walk into a room and it's synced with your setting of the way you like the lights, the way you like the ac, the temperature, your coffee, all that stuff can be done, there's also architects designing. What I call black zone rooms. Rooms that don't allow for wifi access, right? For things that are highly confidential,

Host: very okay

Remi Dada: to reduce the chance of you being hacked, right? There is a lot, if you're gathering all this data, you are now, you now have to now think about things like blockchain. a decentralized way to secure the data.

Host: The data, yes.

Remi Dada: And that's where you begin to piece in the different technologies and how it can help. Or you are looking at some quantum systems, because if quantum computers are gonna be what they're going be what? Yeah. Many quantum systems to help you prevent being hack by. So the list is endless in the, where cybersecurity is going to and the roles the architects are playing. I think that there are professionals in those industries. The architects will begin to align with.

Host: Align with, okay.

Remi Dada: And if they work together, they can create this space that does what it's supposed to do. Help the occupants to achieve their goals, thrive, be safe.

Host: And how much of. How much of these new concepts, if you like should maybe architects want to go into knowing themselves?

Remi Dada: So I think that you can't know everything. Okay. You should know what you need to know and things that you don't know. You should call the experts

Host: collaborate.

Remi Dada: Yes, you should collaborate. You should partner, right? So for example, we don't manufacture IOT devices. Exactly, but we, have partners that we will work with that understand what the brief is, right? So you should have security firms that you should work with that understand what the brief is and you guys should collaborate together. The issue is when you have a blind spot and you don't even know that, and you don't even know that, and engage it's security partner to help you think through these things. And I think that's how you learn.

Host: You learn as well. And I think collaboration is really key. you can't also be a jack of all trade. You really need professional.

Remi Dada: Yes. You can't.

Host: What's space finish up to? What's new in space [00:41:00] finish.?

Remi Dada: What's new?

Host: Yes.

Remi Dada: I, what, I'm wearing a very cool t-shirt today.

Host: Okay. Yes. Yeah, I see that.

Remi Dada: Yeah. So space travel is up to a lot of things. One of the key things that we are doing is we are. We are releasing new products to the markets, okay? One of which is campus, which is the shirts that I'm wearing, right? And campus is our solution to make private offices easier to access for people, because if you have a team of 50, 60, 70, 100 people, you need your private office. Yep. You can. You've outgrown a coworking space,

Host: a co-work space. Yeah.

Remi Dada: And if you need a private office currently, there's only one way to go about it. You are going to go deal with a very expensive grade, A office.

Host: Quite some real estates.

Remi Dada: Yeah. you're paying more than you are paying in New York City. They're going to have to deal with a very unprofessional landlord. That doesn't care about you just want their money and just want to just go do their own thing. Yep. You're going to have to go hire a company like Space Pay, finish, space

Host: Finish that is not very cheap. Convert to what you want.

Remi Dada: You're going to have to wait because these things take time. You're going to have to pay up a lot of money upfront to build up the space. You're going to have to own assets. If furniture or fit asset management company, you are a management consulting firm, you're going to have to do that. And then they're going to have to manage the damn space.

Host: Sign itself. Yeah.

Remi Dada:Worrying about t's next policy on how it affects you on diesel, not un managed and clean. Have to do all that stuff.

Host: All of that. Yes.

Remi Dada: Imagine there's a place to go to online and have the most seamless experience to find your private office space, discover it, set it up, manage it, and just pay a Subscription fee.

Host: Okay, Just pay moving and keep subscribing. Yeah. Every other thing is taken care of.

Remi Dada: That's what campus is. Campus is a platform that allows me to let businesses free access, discover, manage private office, and it's an next evolution for, because we have hundreds of customers that we see no to all the time because we are a for profit business and they. We have limited amount of time, so we'd always pick the PwCs of the world over the other, well-meaning swap organizations and midsized businesses. Now we have a product that they can access them as well, and send them a whole bunch of money and time. Great. So that's one of the things that we are up to. Other things that we're up to is we are also looking to get into the real estate space. So campus is a way of doing that from commercial real estate. Yeah. We are looking to do things in residential real estate fronts and we are also expanding our scope of work from doing interior designs and builds and fit out to building new builds and structures. One of our projects we're working on, I own mention the client's name. Client's name, yeah. But we building what we believe is the first tech campus.

Host: Tech Campus

Remi Dada: Tech Campus. Okay. Full on sprawling campus with his football pitch and his bar and his wall net rooms and his gym and the accommodations and entire. Ecosystem entire life that's very lifestyle based, right? And we saw the oil and gas guys do this back in the day, the total and Chevron, but we haven't in, in this recent time, seen up and coming tech companies do it. So we're building those sort of things from scratch, right? Going to full on construction because we feel that is how we can provide end-to-end value across the value chain. And we'll be deploying those sort of products. Out and hoping that we'll find more customers that are looking for those kind of solutions. So yeah. So that's what we've been up to. Interesting. You

Host: Interesting You heard it first on experience pod. We'll conclude with this sets of questions. Just three questions. We would like to ask most of our guests here on the experience pod. People make predictions and someone like you as a CEO, you make predictions on how your. Your business is evolving, your industry is the trends within your industry and where it'll be in a few years. So the question is, what was the last prediction you got wrong?

Remi Dada: So there was a time where I felt that VR

Host: Yeah. Okay.

Remi Dada: Was at the time for VR, had finally arrived. Okay. And we are gonna see. VR move from a niche product to a mass market.

Host: That is virtual reality. 

Remi Dada: Yeah. Virtual reality. Virtual reality and augmented reality. 

Host: And augmented reality. Okay.

Remi Dada:  It's gonna become a mass market product in which a lot of the things that we seen happen would become the reality. A thing where when your mom or your dad is using vr, you know that it's gone viral, right?

Host: Yeah. That's like WhatsApp is right now? Yes.

Remi Dada: Yes.

Host: Okay.

Remi Dada: I think that's wrong. I don't think the product, I think product is still many years ahead. Many years.

Host: Many years. Okay. All right. So that's one prediction. That wasn't, that didn't come out quite right yet.

Remi Dada: Yes. Yet.

Host:  Okay. What is one view you seem to find very few people agree with, but you agree with it, but perhaps your colleagues, people interact with your family?

Remi Dada: so I'll speak from my profession. Okay. In my pro, within my profession, amongst other architects, I feel that. I have my own personal view is you build an organization, okay, to fire yourself from your roles and responsibilities. Okay? Delegation, if you may. Great. I feel like you build those systems, you build that clock that operates without you, right? That to me is the ultimate goal.

Host: The ultimate goal, okay?

Remi Dada: Because it frees up your time to go do so many other things and add values in different ways, and you begin to work on building your business, not just work with you, not just work inside your business.

Host: Become more strategic.

Remi Dada: And a lot of people don't agree with that. A lot of people. And there's no right or wrong answer's, just my preference. A lot of people feel like, no, you got into this job to design. You want to

Host: design and hands

Remi Dada:  hands on and, but I feel like you can't really. Drive the largest impact that way because your time will be so spent on doing individual tasks versus seeing things on a much larger scale. So I know I've said that

Host: maybe some people might feel nobody can bring your idea to life more than you can, so you have to be fully involved.

Remi Dada: It's a fallacy of growth, okay? You have to let go and the guys that you let go to would not be as good as you. They'll do it their own way. They'll do it their own way. But if you are a master builder, you would eventually get to a place where you have people who are way better than you doing what you were doing. And if you have the sense of inducing that I feel like I have, you need to get your solutions to more people. There's no reason for us to do campus. We can just rest on our laurel and keep on doing what we doing with us. Yeah. But we feel like, why are we turning down A lot of companies that want our service, we need a solution that is faster and more affordable. And I can't build that. If Remy that is, it depends. Designing a chair for you. Exactly. All the time. All the time. We have to empower the amazing, talented architects and designers that are up coming. Teach them given this platform and the tools so they can do,

Host:  allow them fly.

Remi Dada: Exactly.

Host: Okay. So we've, these things we do on experience pod every guest leaves a question for the next guest. So if you have a mystery question from the last guest, and you'll also be leaving a question for the next guest. So the mystery question here is looking at things post covid, if. I think it's a very cheap question for Remy. If things, if broadband penetration improves significantly would you opt to work from home or will you, and generally would you advocate a work from home situation if broadband penetration was not to be a problem?

Remi Dada: See, it's not one dimensional problem. So it really depends on factors. It depends on what type of business are you running right? What stage of your business lifecycle at you lifecycle? Yeah. Are you a large organization that has really has everything figured out and is just plug and play? And the role of the person is just to press this button and then by all means, press from anyway, impress it from The Bahamas and enjoy your life. Are you building something that's very complicated that requires extreme coordination and minimal margins of error, and you better go see your people and be in the same space, right? Sure. But it's, but the thing about internet penetration and being able to work remotely and all the amazing tools that companies are providing that enables you is you don't have the flexibility of choice. You have the flexibility of choice. You can work remotely, but at the foundational level, No matter how fast you want to get with technology, there's one piece of the puzzle that never changes. Human beings,

Host: human touch.

Remi Dada: We are social creatures. You can go to church virtually, can't you?

Host: Sure.

Remi Dada: But some people choose to go to church. Some there, this broadcast, church services, more convenience. But people still choose, still want to go, physically, go to church physically, because there's something there. And cause we are social creatures. So I think at the end of the day, as people figure out different ways to work, it gives you flexibility. Maybe you're not seen every day, maybe you're more hybrid. Maybe depending on the kind of work you're doing, you need to be in and out. And maybe the idea of work and offices might need to evolve. If I told you that, Hey dude, next week I'm working from the beach. Sounds like a more a opinion thing. I'm working from a space, a spaceship themed. Work area, environment. Yeah. Places that actually pull you in and make you want to experience amazing things with your people. Focus work now happens in new office.

Host: In new office. Okay.

Remi Dada: The office , comes your home collaborative work depending on new organization and your needs happens in it happen in the office. In the office. Okay. So I dunno if I answered the question.

Host: No. Great stuff. Yes, great insights as well. Okay, so now. Final question will be what perspective would you like to get from our next interview? We don't know who the person is yet, but just any question you think you want the next interview to speak to?

Remi Dada: No. For a difficult one.

Okay. The next person I read something very early in my career that stuck with me and the answer is never very easy, but it tells you a lot about someone. But the next person, does that person want to be rich or king? You want to be rich or king rich, meaning you have all the money or the money. Yeah. But you might not have, you might not have all the control, all the control King meaning you have absolute power but you might not be as rich.