Creating value beyond wealth: Episode 9

Host: Hello everyone, and welcome to another exciting episode of the PwC NextGenTalks podcast. I am Emeka Chime, and I will be your host on this episode. Today, we are exploring a powerful theme: Creating value beyond wealth - NextGen approach to impact and legacy. 

I am excited to be joined by a dynamic leader whose journey brings together a wonderful mix of corporate social responsibility, urban planning, and psychology; which I daresay, is a combination that truly shapes a different kind of leadership perspective. 

Since 2014—a long time ago— she has built a distinguished career in executive management, beginning at Vital Products Plc and now serving as Vice President at Verod Capital Management, where she leads value creation and deal sourcing initiatives across the private equity portfolio. Beyond the business, she remains actively involved across a wider network of family investments, reflecting a clear focus on long-term value and impact. 

It is a pleasure to welcome Malvika Kapoor Vaswani to the PwC NextGen Talks podcast. Malvika, it is wonderful to have you here. 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Thanks, Emeka. It's a pleasure to be here. 

Host: Alright, great. So, before we delve into more serious business, I would like to ask a question that I'm passionate about, and I know many people are passionate about, and that’s food. Nigerian jollof versus Ghana jollof—and this is me taking for granted that you've tasted these types of jollof— but Nigeria and Ghana jollof, what's your take? 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Nigeria. 

Host: [Laughter] I think she's just saying this.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Nigeria, true. 

Host: Oh wow, nice! Well, I've tried Ghana jollof and I thought it was good, but yeah, we're being patriotic, I guess. But yeah. So, I understand that you're ethnically Indian as well, and I know the spice profile is also similar to the kind of food that—I mean Indian food, right? 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Absolutely! My spice threshold is pretty high. 

Host: Great. Alright, so I'll start with some questions. Malvika, can we take you back to when you stepped into leadership at your family business? How do you define the kind of value you wanted to create for the business? 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Well, if you really want to take it back, to be honest, I didn't come to Nigeria to run Vital [Products]. I wanted to open a school. My dad was living alone in Nigeria building his empire, and I said I wanted to build a school. And he said, 'Well, before you spend my money, I'd really appreciate it if you made some money.'

Host: Oh wow.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: And that's why I started working for Vital. Definitely I didn't start in any predominant management role. I never even joined the business expecting to be the MD, contrary to family business popular belief. I think, like many second-generation family members, I wanted to earn a place. So, I started in sales, very, very low-end sales in the open market; dancing in Mushin- 

Host: Oh wow.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani:- Agege market, trying to sell a bit of tomato paste, you know, DJ dancers, freebies.

Then I moved into regional management, then business development, before eventually becoming Managing Director. And that was a ten-year journey. And also, the journey was invaluable because it meant I understood the business from the ground up, rather than simply inheriting the title. 

When I became MD, my focus wasn't just on growth for growth's sake. It was about building a business that could grow beyond us, beyond the founder, be sustainable, be a legacy. So, we structured departments, introduced systems and reporting, clarified accountability, professionalised the organisation. You know how we are; we come in with western ideals to our family businesses. 

It took me ten years to change positions to get to a position that I was proud of. It sounds crazy, but that is sometimes the reality of family business: it's informal, it's not structured, and to change things takes time. I don't think we appreciate how long these things take. I’m not proud of it, that’s the reality. 

Obviously, it wasn't easy, we had so much resistance, and lots of people chose to leave. But I learned that if you're trying to build an organisation that lasts another generation, not everyone is going to come on that journey with you, and that's okay. You just have to make sure the founder is on board. And that also was a bit of a challenge at times; you have to earn trust there too. Some of these people have been—some of these positions have been there since you were a child. 

Ultimately, I wanted to leave behind a stronger institution. It's not always easy. I don't know whether it's just a Nigeria thing, but from what I understand from my NextGens across the globe, I think it's a worldwide thing. 

Host: Yes. And just picking up on what you said about how you had to earn trust and earn your keep even in a family business, I think that's quite instructive. And you came from—I mean you said it took you ten years; you did sales, you danced at Mushin. You didn’t just go to the top and that, I guess, imbibes the whole business culture in you so that you’re more effectively leading when you get to the top.  

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Well, I sent you some photos. 

Host: Great stuff! So, in your opinion, what would you say are some of the responsibilities that NextGen leaders have in shaping value for future generations?

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: So, I think the biggest responsibility is respecting the past without becoming trapped in it. Every next generation thinks they know better. We come with new ideas, new technology, and new management styles. We genuinely believe our way is more progressive. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, who knows? Ultimately this is what we're faced with. 

But the founders, they built these businesses when we were just still children. Their businesses are not just financial assets; it’s years of sacrifice, uncertainty, missed family moments, and enormous, enormous risk— personal risk. Once I understood that, my conversations with my dad changed completely. Instead of asking, 'Why won't he change?', 'Why are these changes so difficult?', I started asking, 'What is he protecting? What has he learned? What are the burns that he has?' 

Often, he would say, 'No, I've done that, don't do that.' But he may have tried it 20, 25 years ago. So that's when I say: don't get trapped in it; try, try again. And then when you understand the emotional investment, change becomes a partnership rather than a battle. So, I think for me, that's important. 

Host: I think you said something about 'respecting the past, but not getting trapped in it', I think that’s something. You know the Gen Z guys would say: ‘clock it!' [Laughter] If you pick anything from today as a NextGen leader, that should be one of those things 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Why do they say ‘clock it’? 

Host: ‘Clock it’, I think it means ‘that was something wonderful’, ‘that was a good point’. I’m trying my best to keep up with the trends. 

Alright. So, beyond profitability, from your current experience at Verod Capital—because I understand you’ve sort of transitioned to that role—what does real value creation look like in a family business, from that [private equity] perspective? 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Private equity has actually really reinforced many of the lessons I learned in the family business, which is why it felt like a very natural progression. It's not simply about increasing EBITDA; yes, that is the main thing that is under discussion, but how we get there isn't just a financial journey. 

It's building a business that someone else would confidently own after you. It's about developing relationships, its contact, its networks, exposing people to other countries where they are going through the same thing that Nigeria was or did in the past before. India is a very good example. We are probably 20, 25 years away from what India is doing right now. Perspective. 

Also very important that we work with founders that are not always working in the business because it’s difficult to work “on” the business if you are only working “in” the business. Everyday 'kobo-kobo' problems will stop you from seeing- 

Host: The big picture 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: -strategy, long-term. 

And of course, it also means stronger governance, better management teams, institutionalising processes, succession planning, difficult conversations to be had with everybody.  

Culture, like I mentioned, is a clash from family to family, let alone from professional management to family members. Culture is where performance doesn't depend on just one individual. Really, we feel that the businesses that create the most value are usually the ones where the founder is no longer in the business, so he’s not a 'key man risk' anymore and they can remain, and their legacy remains. 

Host: Very interesting. Malvika, my next question to you is an interesting one. Sometimes some decisions have to be made but there might not be any immediate upside, and the value comes further down the line. So my question would be: what would you say is that decision that didn't deliver immediate returns but created long-term value in your journey? 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Gosh, there were so many! 

Host: Okay, what are the decisions? 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Doing business in Nigeria on the ground, especially when you are, like I said, dancing in the market. But overall, one of the hardest decisions was accepting at a certain point, that I probably wasn't the right person to lead the business forever. 

After you had implemented the operational changes to your best ability, restructured the organisation, brought in a new team, and put systems in place, the business had reached a different stage of growth. I, as you know, had careers in the UK but never in factory or branding. So, I realised this next chapter required someone with probably decades of industry experience; Nigeria experience, manufacturing [experience]. And that's when we found our current Managing Director, who had 20 years more [experience] on me in this country, had run seven different factories, and had worked in distribution companies. So there we are. I don't know if that's the right answer for something that didn't go right, he definitely went right.  

Sometimes I think leadership is people trying to prove they are the smartest person in the room or deserving of this position. I think we try to justify it a lot in the family business world. I've learned that leadership is knowing when someone else is better equipped for the next chapter; being humble enough to accept it and also probably a bit scared about having to go into being employed by somebody who is not a family member. So yeah, I think that decision created long-term value for sure. 

Host: I mean I like it and I see how you mean, around how because it's a family business, it doesn't have to be a NextGen. You can run it in different capacities, which I understand that you currently do for the business. Thank you for sharing that insight. 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: I'm still on the board, I'm involved in the business once a month, anything that we do externally. Also, he's still my dad, I still see him maybe four times a week and we speak every day.  

Host: Okay, that’s a lot more than some people I know. Great stuff, thank you. From your experience though, how do you think family businesses can adapt and thrive amid ongoing changes and challenges. Obviously even more than ever, the landscape in Nigeria, even globally. is more volatile. So how can family businesses continue to adapt and thrive? 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: I think we have to just continuously stay curious. We have to keep our ear to the local ground, the international ground. What are people eating? What are they doing? What's the new trend? Where are the problems? Which countries are solving these issues? For example, India is far ahead in recycling; recycling everything from pineapple skins to mushrooms, leaves. They are making paper out of everything. That is an untouched industry that we have here, for example. I always believe that the businesses that survive are the ones that continue learning, adapting, staying relevant, you know. If you don't stay relevant, you become redundant. AI, huge topic. It’s daunting. 

Host: Very. 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Companies that we have been physically counting [on, to] maybe move to an ERP system, have human beings loading, you want to put AI to a business, and put that to founders [in their] 60s, 70s, 80s. Huge. But if you don't do it, it's impossible to keep growing in this economy. Anybody will come in tomorrow and would be bigger than us. We’ve been struggling for thirty-five years on ground, it's not an easy implementation, but we've got to stay relevant. 

Also, what are the consumer changes? Are NextGen becoming more health conscious? Are we drinking less? Are we looking at the environment more? Although, in the past I used to believe what's happening globally will take a really long time before it comes here. Now with this generation of Instagram and TikTok it comes much quicker. 

Host: Yeah 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: The generations are much more linked than we thought, which is also great you know. Environmental—people want recycle, to be careful, and recycled or vegetarian. And I never thought that concept could exist here. 

Host: Yeah, that’s interesting. 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: So yeah, for me those are really important: staying curious and staying relevant. 

Host: Yeah. To be honest, especially when you spoke about AI, it is disrupting, even here at PwC. We are struggling to catch our breath keeping up with the new changes every day. So, I can't imagine how it is for you guys in the industry as well. Wow. 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: It's not like we're on Excel, ever. And then you want to add into brick-and-mortar business, it's absolutely impossible—well it’s not impossible, it just takes- 

Host: You just need to continue to stay agile. 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Also, culture. Culture changes far, far slower than technology.

Host: I like that. How do you mean culture changes faster than technology? 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: I have never had a seamless implementation of any technology, even if it was the use of Slack or a system where—like a nav. system or an ERP system. There are people in industry who unfortunately haven't been educated to the levels that you'd expect someone today who’s been sitting in a manual role tomorrow to be on an AI platform feeding information. It's not going to be that simple. So there’s one thing, there's actual education, there's culture; they don’t really want to. It change [things] for everybody and there's also fear of losing their jobs which is a real fear.

Host: I think maybe just to add perspectives—when you say culture changes slower than technology. For example, in your world or well, the world of the industry, people have to manage this technology, and so people need to learn and then fear of losing their jobs comes in and then people begin to push back on these things.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Of course.

Host: You need to find a way to manage that as well. Wow, quite interesting.  

So, tell us Malvika, how has that approach shaped the way that you lead and make decisions today at Verod? Including the way, you mentioned how the world is changing; technology. Has that impacted the way you shape and make decisions at Verod? 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Well today, we spend—and I think Verod always has spent—a significant amount of time with their founders, actually getting to know them. What’s also great is we are sector-agnostic, so we are always learning about new businesses from iFitness to Pan Africa Towers, to MedPlus to stake in Moniepoint. We're not experts in any of these industries; we always back the people, back the team, make sure that they are supported. They are the people that have built these businesses, we are the ones that could provide a safe haven of infrastructure and financing and networks.  

Having been on both sides, I probably have much more empathy now than did 10 years ago when founders, for example, push back on valuation, or governance, recommendations. It's rarely because they actually don't understand, they obviously understand, but as we've been through the changes and the resistance, and the resignations, and the battles. Not everyone wants to do that. We’re also institutions, we're not the family members that's pushing the changes that we think are the right [ones]. It’s because they are valuing something investors don't see on a spreadsheet: that's years of sacrifice, relationships, risk, identity.  

Our job at private equity at Verod, it isn’t to replace that at all. It's to preserve what made the business successful, while building systems that allow it to outlive the founders. We have to come in and we have to exit. So it's about building it up to a different size for exit which is what we have to do but we do it together, we hold hands.

Host: Okay. That's really nice and I like how you mentioned how you—I mean you didn't say it in these words—but you sort of implied that you invest in the people. So maybe just to pivot in that line, what are those qualities that you look at or look for in these people that sort of tell you, ‘yes this is a good idea or a good investment opportunity’?

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Integrity 

Host: Great 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Humility 

Host: Absolutely 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Hard work 

Host: All of which I have by the way. 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: You have business to sell? 

Host: We’ll talk about that after this. [Laughter] 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: You just wanna know that you're getting into a second marriage. You you're getting into a relationship with a person that is a good person. If we have recommendations, whether they want to take it on or not take it on or not take it on— there’s a way to speak, respectful. Integral, hardworking, make sure that we’re aligned, have similar goals and that we know that we are doing this together. 

Host: Great. 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: You know those things that have to do with ingenuity,, creativity; these are things that we really look for 

Host: Investing in a business is like a second marriage, that was a good one. Okay, my next question to you: how can family businesses go beyond just running a successful company to actually creating real and lasting value for people and communities around them? 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: I think businesses create value when they become institutions. It’s a difficult process: professional management, making sure that there is systems instead of too much dependency on key people in the businesses. 

Lasting value in Nigeria; I have always believed that focusing on affordability to the mass-market is a space I think is very important. Healthcare, food, hygiene, education; these are all very important, and because we have such a massive disparity of income here. I don't think we have a massive middle class, it's important to make sure that the mass-

Host: Is that very much like India by the way? I’m just curious.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: It was. India has a very large middle class right now and a super-rich upper class.

Host: Wow 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: So yes there's absolutely a disparity, but here it feels like the gap hasn't been filled. 

Host: Yes, for a long time. 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Whereas in India, the money is trickling down, the middle class is growing. I also think it means creating more opportunities for employees to build careers, to grow up in the ladder, to have some sort of upward look. They shouldn’t have a glass ceiling just because of where they are. I learned on the job, many people learned on the job. I remember our head engineer started with my dad 23 years ago-

Host: Oh wow

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: - as a loader. Engineer. Head of Factory. Obviously when I came to the business, I was like ‘how is this possible?’ Today he’s - 

Host: Did he have—I’m assuming that’s a ”he”—well did the person have any form of education, engineering education?

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: I don't even know. I don’t even know the answer to that. Perhaps? Maybe? I always have people who used to come in for job in sales, but they had studied like Biochemistry and I always thought ‘this is not your dream.’ 

But today, he has been recruited by a multinational company to be their consultant engineer in Nigeria. 

Host: Oh wow 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: And he was a loader. So, if he had ever seen a glass ceiling, there was no way he would have been able to achieve what he's achieved. So that’s really important to me.

Supporting suppliers; the more local we can go, that’s where businesses are very interesting. Of course, we know so much in Nigeria is imported but if there is something that is locally sourced or agriculture that we can grow and we can use in our own food. Like we use like Nigerian chilli for our tomato paste.

Host: Oh really? 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Ata rodo

Host: Wow, okay.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Yeah, so if you can, those local suppliers, we should be supporting them. Improving communities, developing future leaders. I think especially Nigeria, successful businesses becomes part of the countries' infrastructure. Trying to solve problems that the government can’t solve on their own, I think these are responsibilities we don’t really talk about enough.

Host: Yes. And I like how you spoke about how your investment purview goes to the mass market; you know things that border around important things like healthcare and things like that. That's great, thank you.

My next question to you would be: from your current vantage point in private equity, how do PE firms partner with family businesses—and I think you've probably spoken to this a bit—how do they partner with family businesses to unlock lasting value?

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: I think private equity works best when it behaves like a partner rather than an owner. And Verod does this very well. We have this saying when we are talking to new founders, and we mean it: 'When we swim, we swim together; if we sink, we sink together.' And it's a good feeling for founders.

Capital, as I mentioned before, is only one part of the equation. The real value comes from the governance, the strategic thinking. We do strategy days together with the whole team. Everyone comes together we talk about our 100-day plan, everyone's aligned. After that day, we then head off to achieve the 100-day plan because it is really important for the first few months with the new management, cultural shifts, that kind of thing. 

Host: 100 days at the start of the year or?

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: 100-days at the start of the investment.

Host: Okay, great.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: So we all come together for strategy day, sometimes it's a 2-3 day strategy, depending on the size of the business. And then yeah, we work together to make sure that we are aligned. The real value comes from the other stuff: accessing network, operational expertise, and helping businesses prepare for the next stage of growth.

Sometimes founders think we are buying like a percentage of their company, which technically on paper we are, but we often think we are actually buying into their ambition, their business plan, their expansion, their dream; I hope, to a certain extent. That's where I think we unlock that value.

Host: Very nice way to put it by thinking about it as a partnership like you said. You've sat at both sides of the table, as an operator, and now as an investor, so you have that bird’s eye view. What’s the biggest mindset shift that you've had to make in transitioning from operator to investor?

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: That’s a… 

Host: That’s a heavy question. 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Yeah but we face it every day. On one side, we have sat in a factory, sweating for years, selling multiple products-

Host: Dancing at Mushin, I can’t forget that. [Laughter] 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: -dealing with the problems, dealing with FX, dealing with theft dealing with whatever comes at you. You have to understand the valuation is actually an emotional number. Very rarely do founders and private equity have the same value in mind.

How can you put a value to all those years of hardship where the effort of our numbers don't reflect that pain or that struggle. whilst Nigeria, the reason that we don't have light and everything else, is a barrier to entry for other people. There’s a few of us who could do it so we have less competition. It's still a very difficult phase, so how do you want to value that? When I was at the family business, and we had 40% private equity in our business -

Host: So, you did have private equity in the business?

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Yes

Host: Was that part of what made you consider transitioning to..

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: It was exactly. I sat across the table, So we have RMB Corvest that owned 40% of Vital. They wanted to diverse as normal, so I sat across the table from private equity, we discussed plans together, how to make their business better, how we should do, and I really enjoyed those meetings.

Host: Wow, okay

It's always hard to hear that ‘I know we can do better’ to your business after not having sat in it. Very difficult conversation to have. So yeah, we have that in the business. So when they would say ‘this is what we think the business is worth’, and the number is disheartening, definitely not for all the sweat and blood that was put in this business. I don't even think these words existed when my dad was building the business.

Host: Yeah, all these terms.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: We had profit, our topline, you had sales, and then [now], you have all these numbers and people are coming to buy your business. I really am very empathetic to that. It's not just what the statement shows but what can we do? We can only look at these numbers because our hands are also tied. We have institutional money, we have to be very, very, clear on what and who we are investing in and why. But yeah, founders really struggle with that. But that doesn't measure 25 years of sleepless nights, missing birthdays, spending decades alone without your family; family shipped off to England for education when you live here by yourself. Spending decades trying to build customer trust, going knocking on doors.

Host: This sounds very personal by the way, it almost seems like you're talking about Vital.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Very much talking about Vital. But that's the experience when you understand that the value isn't in that spreadsheet for them. I guess they know what they have to do.

Host: Yeah, But I would say your experience on both ends of the table brings that perspective now that you're an investor, and I guess helps make—well I do hope, it helps make more informed decisions, right? Great.

It's been such a very educative session talking with you Malvika. And I'll just go a bit lighter. My question to you would be: if you could choose a superpower, so think about it, maybe living forever and things like that. If you could choose a superpower, what would that be and why? 

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Two superpowers.

Host: Oh no, she wants two. Okay, let’s hear them.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: The first one would be perspective. I'd love to say something like flying or invisibility but I genuinely, genuinely, choose the ability to see through someone else's eyes, whether an entrepreneur, an employee. You know you try your best to see all these things but perspective. I love seeing the world through my daughter’s eyes cause that's also a different perspective.

Host: That’s interesting.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Because someone else's perspective solves more problems than just the intelligence. And hindsight. Sometimes I wish we didn't have to have all that experience, but there's no greater lesson than experience. Sometimes it would be time-saving to skip the hardship and just have that hindsight. [Laughter] 

Host: Oh wow. Perspective and hindsight; those are very wonderful superpowers. Nobody should ask me for my superpowers. I would have just said-

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: What is your superpower?

Host: Flying into the CBN's vault [laughter] unnoticed. But yeah, I'm just kidding. Perspective and hindsight; just thinking about how it's maybe very relevant to your work right now, even in investing and the rest. Perspective and hindsight, I guess, are what investors probably need to also explode their investment portfolio.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Speaking on behalf of all of us.

Host: I'm very delighted to have had you here. I'll just ask you: so for the past 20 minutes or more we've been asking you questions, you've been on the hot seat, almost literally and this is your opportunity to ask us—myself, our audience, even people on our social media post when this video goes viral—what is that question that you want to ask us? You’re now given the opportunity to ask us questions. Do you have any questions for us?

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: For PwC, I need to think about it. But I guess we are talking to the NextGen on this podcast and maybe they could come to you if they have questions or hardships in family businesses, next steps, you know if anybody is thinking of a change of career which is always very dauting, leaving the family business. I guess it’s not a question, I guess this is me just saying to whoever is listening that you're not alone, there's many people in your position, globally. I'm just a very tiny one; everyone is going through what you're going through, I guess reach out to the network.

Host: to PwC...

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Yeah, to PwC. Do you have any deals in the market?

Host: Yeah, we do, we can pick that up after this.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: And to PwC, well done for doing this, this is great for the NextGen.

Host: Yeah, It's our pleasure.

Today's conversation with Malvika has provided profound insights into the true meaning of creating value beyond wealth, emphasising purposeful leadership, and building a legacy that withstands time.

Her experience has highlighted some of the complexities that NextGen family businesses face when navigating the evolving landscape; particularly with Nigeria's recent tax reforms which may add some complexities to succession, to governance, to wealth transfer. Not to worry, PwC supports family through these changes by offering strategy—I have to advertise anyway—that guidance that helps these businesses protect and adapt, and grow their wealth, ensuring that legacy thrives across generations. Thank you so much once again Malvika, for joining us today.

Malvika Kapoor Vaswani: Thank you so much PwC, that was a really fun conversation.

Host: Thank you so much once again Malvika. Again, it's been a fun one. I am Emeka Chime, and that was the NextGen Talks podcast. Thank you.