WEBVTT 00:00:08.285 --> 00:00:09.155 Hello everyone. 00:00:09.935 --> 00:00:12.475 Good morning. Good morning. 00:00:12.775 --> 00:00:14.475 Thank you all for coming to one 00:00:14.475 --> 00:00:18.675 of the first panel sessions this morning at TEDAI Vienna, 00:00:18.715 --> 00:00:20.995 Give yourself a round of applause for getting up 00:00:20.995 --> 00:00:22.675 so early after the gala last night. 00:00:23.775 --> 00:00:28.355 And we are going to talk on 00:00:28.655 --> 00:00:32.115 how to lead as AI advances. 00:00:32.295 --> 00:00:35.155 I'm Hilke Schellmann, I'm an investigative journalist. 00:00:35.255 --> 00:00:38.515 I'm a professor at NYU, now this year at Princeton. 00:00:39.015 --> 00:00:41.875 I'm here because last year I was a TEDAI speaker. 00:00:42.095 --> 00:00:43.995 So I'm having the time of my life this year. 00:00:44.155 --> 00:00:46.155 Because last year I was very nervous, 00:00:46.545 --> 00:00:47.795 holed up in my hotel room. 00:00:48.295 --> 00:00:50.875 but I think maybe more importantly I'm here 00:00:51.035 --> 00:00:53.155 because I wrote a book on AI in hiring 00:00:53.415 --> 00:00:54.515 and AI in the workforce. 00:00:54.735 --> 00:00:57.235 So that's exactly what we're going to talk about today. 00:00:57.975 --> 00:00:59.355 And I have a group 00:00:59.355 --> 00:01:02.275 of like phenomenal leaders in this space, 00:01:02.275 --> 00:01:04.755 here who're going to tell us how they are leading 00:01:04.755 --> 00:01:07.915 through these enticing, 00:01:08.435 --> 00:01:10.315 dramatic times that we get to live through. 00:01:10.935 --> 00:01:15.515 So with me is, Bolor-Erdene Battsengel. 00:01:15.695 --> 00:01:17.875 Yes. Okay. I'm trying . 00:01:18.395 --> 00:01:20.875 She's a founder and CEO of AI Academy in Asia. 00:01:21.135 --> 00:01:24.795 And she's trying to create equal access 00:01:24.855 --> 00:01:26.075 to AI education. 00:01:26.215 --> 00:01:28.355 And she's also a TEDAI speaker this year. 00:01:28.375 --> 00:01:30.395 So you'll see her tomorrow on the big stage. 00:01:31.015 --> 00:01:32.835 And she's the former Vice President 00:01:32.835 --> 00:01:35.075 of Digital Development of Mongolia. 00:01:35.655 --> 00:01:37.555 And then to my left is Joe Atkinson. 00:01:37.555 --> 00:01:40.715 He's the Global Chief AI Officer, for 00:01:41.275 --> 00:01:42.995 PwC. 00:01:43.255 --> 00:01:45.755 And he's a member 00:01:45.755 --> 00:01:47.395 of the Global Commercial Leadership team. 00:01:47.495 --> 00:01:51.515 And he works, sort of does AI internally 00:01:52.255 --> 00:01:56.395 and also brings it to their vendors 00:01:56.825 --> 00:01:58.675 outside of PwC. 00:01:59.095 --> 00:02:02.235 And you also work with upskilling 00:02:02.695 --> 00:02:05.395 and sort of thinking through working practices of 00:02:05.905 --> 00:02:08.595 more than 370,000 people worldwide. 00:02:09.455 --> 00:02:12.475 and then we have our Hardy Pemhiwa, 00:02:12.975 --> 00:02:15.195 Is that? Fantastic. Okay 00:02:16.055 --> 00:02:18.035 And he's the president 00:02:18.095 --> 00:02:20.395 and group CEO of Cassava Technologies. 00:02:20.655 --> 00:02:22.155 He has 20 plus years 00:02:22.155 --> 00:02:25.115 of senior leadership experience across telecoms, financial 00:02:25.315 --> 00:02:27.595 services and development banking in Africa. 00:02:27.935 --> 00:02:30.035 He co-founded a financial firm in Kenya 00:02:30.535 --> 00:02:32.675 and helped raise over 500 million capital. 00:02:32.955 --> 00:02:35.355 I would like him to be on my team. 00:02:36.655 --> 00:02:39.675 So, we are trying to have this like, 00:02:39.675 --> 00:02:41.235 very conversational, so you'll see, 00:02:41.235 --> 00:02:43.915 we'll talk about leadership and ethics and the future 00:02:44.175 --> 00:02:45.515 and work and all of those things. 00:02:45.735 --> 00:02:48.875 And sprinkled in it, we'll have some 00:02:49.315 --> 00:02:50.955 personal anecdotes of how we use AI. 00:02:51.135 --> 00:02:55.995 So, to get started, I just wanted 00:02:56.115 --> 00:02:58.715 to say, like, I'm sure you all feel like we live 00:02:58.715 --> 00:03:01.645 through like unprecedented time of change, 00:03:01.705 --> 00:03:03.085 it feels like. Like 00:03:03.085 --> 00:03:05.445 yesterday we were all catching up in machine learning, today 00:03:05.475 --> 00:03:07.725 it's like agentic AI, agentic AI. 00:03:08.465 --> 00:03:11.805 So and AI is already changing how we work, 00:03:11.905 --> 00:03:14.045 how organisations work and our personal lives. 00:03:14.555 --> 00:03:16.005 Obviously, there's a lot 00:03:16.005 --> 00:03:17.485 of angst for a lot of people. 00:03:17.825 --> 00:03:20.405 They feel like, will my job be taken away? 00:03:20.705 --> 00:03:23.685 Or, I think a lot of leaders also feel fear, like, 00:03:23.685 --> 00:03:25.845 am I going to be outlet the door 00:03:25.845 --> 00:03:28.605 because I don't catch up to AI fast enough? 00:03:29.185 --> 00:03:31.285 And we do see early indications, 00:03:31.285 --> 00:03:33.365 at least in the US that there's like less entry- 00:03:33.455 --> 00:03:34.485 level job hiring. 00:03:35.105 --> 00:03:37.725 So 00:03:38.195 --> 00:03:40.165 it's a a time of upheaval. 00:03:40.225 --> 00:03:42.165 And so our central question today is like, 00:03:42.185 --> 00:03:45.005 how can you actively lead your organisation 00:03:45.005 --> 00:03:46.125 through the AI area 00:03:46.225 --> 00:03:48.645 and how to avoid AI leading 00:03:48.795 --> 00:03:51.405 your organisation without you and leading you out the door. 00:03:52.065 --> 00:03:53.085 So, 00:03:53.225 --> 00:03:56.085 but we wanted to start with a funny human question 00:03:56.085 --> 00:03:57.205 before we get to the more 00:03:57.205 --> 00:03:58.805 serious questions about leadership. 00:03:59.265 --> 00:04:02.485 So I wanted to ask the panel, like how they use 00:04:02.705 --> 00:04:04.925 AI in their private life. 00:04:04.925 --> 00:04:07.365 Like a fun fact. I'll get started. 00:04:07.625 --> 00:04:11.045 So I live in New York, under the Trump administration, 00:04:11.185 --> 00:04:12.645 pretty depressing right now. 00:04:13.505 --> 00:04:16.085 So I started picking up knitting 00:04:16.105 --> 00:04:18.685 to get myself occupied and not get depressed every night. 00:04:18.785 --> 00:04:20.205 So it turns out I don't 00:04:20.205 --> 00:04:21.245 know how to read a knitting pattern. 00:04:21.305 --> 00:04:22.525 It is like a foreign language, 00:04:22.545 --> 00:04:25.645 and I've never heard of k1, ssk. 00:04:25.645 --> 00:04:28.445 You know who's really good at deciphering that? ChatGPT. 00:04:28.545 --> 00:04:32.045 So I encourage you all to use it for knitting. 00:04:32.465 --> 00:04:34.965 Hardy, tell us how you use it. 00:04:36.005 --> 00:04:38.165 I think it's always interesting 00:04:38.165 --> 00:04:41.965 to get outputs from ChatGPT 00:04:42.825 --> 00:04:44.045 and put them into Claude. 00:04:48.025 --> 00:04:51.765 And you say you kind of game Claude a bit 00:04:51.765 --> 00:04:53.565 and they say, look, this was my thinking. 00:04:54.545 --> 00:04:57.005 Could you critique it? 00:04:58.185 --> 00:05:01.725 And then the most violent one is Grok. 00:05:01.925 --> 00:05:04.885 Because I say to Grok one day — look, 00:05:04.995 --> 00:05:06.525 this is the rubbish answer. 00:05:07.025 --> 00:05:10.805 If you keep going this way, I am going to go to ChatGPT. 00:05:12.985 --> 00:05:16.685 And it was like thinking 17 seconds, 00:05:18.395 --> 00:05:20.085 analysing 27 seconds. 00:05:21.225 --> 00:05:23.005 And, and of course I got a great answer. 00:05:24.025 --> 00:05:25.965 Joe, how do you use it? I love the idea 00:05:25.965 --> 00:05:27.765 of getting the models to argue with each other. 00:05:28.125 --> 00:05:30.405 So I just, so I will often, 00:05:30.725 --> 00:05:32.605 although I'm not as creative as Hardy in getting across 00:05:33.205 --> 00:05:35.485 multiple models, I like to argue with GPT. 00:05:35.545 --> 00:05:37.725 So when you have a question you're working through 00:05:37.725 --> 00:05:39.125 and say, here's my position 00:05:39.125 --> 00:05:40.645 and I want you to tell me why I'm wrong. 00:05:41.145 --> 00:05:42.605 It really actually enjoys 00:05:42.605 --> 00:05:44.365 that conversation a lot more than I do, 00:05:44.505 --> 00:05:45.765 as it tells me why I'm wrong. 00:05:45.885 --> 00:05:46.885 And it usually comes up with some 00:05:46.885 --> 00:05:47.925 really good answers that 00:05:47.925 --> 00:05:48.965 help shape a good idea. 00:05:49.155 --> 00:05:51.605 Bolor, any suggestions? 00:05:51.625 --> 00:05:52.805 A lot of things, 00:05:52.985 --> 00:05:55.325 but, actually comparing different 00:05:55.645 --> 00:05:56.845 platforms takes a lot of time, 00:05:57.385 --> 00:06:00.405 which I've tried a lot of times. 00:06:00.745 --> 00:06:04.045 So we, AI Academy Asia (Unintel phrase ____6.02) 00:06:04.305 --> 00:06:05.965 we do a lot of AI training. 00:06:06.225 --> 00:06:08.325 So, and one of our students 00:06:08.865 --> 00:06:12.645 who is I think like 36-year-old woman, she said, 00:06:13.215 --> 00:06:17.365 every time I have fight with my husband, I turn to GPT 00:06:17.365 --> 00:06:22.285 and ask, is it like, 00:06:22.425 --> 00:06:25.645 am I doing the right thing or is it, my husband's right? 00:06:25.785 --> 00:06:28.325 And ChatGPT GT always says, it's, you're right. 00:06:29.625 --> 00:06:32.125 So I think a lot of times 00:06:32.445 --> 00:06:36.485 GPT is replacing therapists in a way for those 00:06:36.705 --> 00:06:37.965 who need 00:06:37.985 --> 00:06:38.985 it. 00:06:39.315 --> 00:06:41.525 Yeah. So tell us, like, 00:06:41.905 --> 00:06:44.125 how has AI affected what you do? 00:06:44.425 --> 00:06:46.165 And like how do you think through like, 00:06:46.645 --> 00:06:48.045 adopting AI for your organisation? 00:06:48.465 --> 00:06:49.725 Joe, why don't you start? 00:06:49.785 --> 00:06:51.245 You lead a big organisation. Yeah. 00:06:51.315 --> 00:06:53.245 Anybody that looks across 00:06:53.245 --> 00:06:55.325 what organisations are going to be impacted by AI. 00:06:55.345 --> 00:06:57.205 If you look at where it is in the, kind 00:06:57.205 --> 00:06:59.365 of the quadrants, the target is on the back 00:06:59.365 --> 00:07:01.165 of professional services, knowledge work, 00:07:01.165 --> 00:07:02.245 lawyers, accountants. 00:07:02.625 --> 00:07:05.485 So it is absolutely impacting 00:07:05.485 --> 00:07:06.885 everything we do every day. 00:07:07.265 --> 00:07:08.845 And for us, the challenge is how do we get people 00:07:08.845 --> 00:07:10.365 to embrace it and understand it 00:07:10.385 --> 00:07:12.205 and use it in a responsible way, 00:07:12.205 --> 00:07:13.725 in a thoughtful way, a secure way. 00:07:14.065 --> 00:07:16.485 And that is all about the training and inspiration and, 00:07:16.485 --> 00:07:17.965 and how do you get people to come along. 00:07:18.265 --> 00:07:20.765 So you don't like the shadow use 00:07:20.765 --> 00:07:22.845 of AI in your company? 00:07:23.065 --> 00:07:24.805 So I'm sure we have plenty of shadow use 00:07:24.805 --> 00:07:25.805 of AI all over the company. 00:07:26.025 --> 00:07:27.285 But what we're really trying 00:07:27.285 --> 00:07:29.285 to do is bring controlled tools to everybody. 00:07:29.465 --> 00:07:31.805 So I always would say regardless of your role or your title 00:07:31.805 --> 00:07:32.845 or your tenure, whatever it is 00:07:32.845 --> 00:07:34.285 that you do, AI is changing your work. 00:07:34.345 --> 00:07:37.125 So our responsibility as leaders is get you the right tools 00:07:37.425 --> 00:07:39.525 so that we don't have to worry about you doing shadow tools. 00:07:39.525 --> 00:07:41.285 We're giving you the very best tools every day. 00:07:41.285 --> 00:07:43.685 And that's what we've been doing. We now have our 00:07:43.845 --> 00:07:47.245 ChatPwC platforms available to 320,000 00:07:47.245 --> 00:07:48.965 of our 375,000 people. 00:07:49.275 --> 00:07:50.605 That includes multiple models. 00:07:50.705 --> 00:07:53.045 And that's really to get people engaged in using it 00:07:53.265 --> 00:07:56.125 and get them comfortable because it's coming 00:07:56.345 --> 00:07:58.685 and it's here, and it's not going to wait for them 00:07:58.705 --> 00:08:00.405 to think about whether they want to apply. Yeah. 00:08:00.435 --> 00:08:01.565 What does this platform do? 00:08:01.865 --> 00:08:03.605 So ChatPwC is a controlled platform. 00:08:03.665 --> 00:08:05.285 So, think of the models, 00:08:05.385 --> 00:08:07.365 but now the model is in a secure environment 00:08:07.365 --> 00:08:08.645 where our data is protected 00:08:08.665 --> 00:08:10.645 and our client's data is protected, 00:08:10.645 --> 00:08:12.045 and we have this capability for them 00:08:12.045 --> 00:08:13.885 to apply the models for their work every day. 00:08:14.305 --> 00:08:16.605 And one of several tools that we deploy, 00:08:16.625 --> 00:08:18.405 but at the end of the day, we're just asking people 00:08:18.425 --> 00:08:19.685 to rethink the way they work. 00:08:20.105 --> 00:08:21.125 And it's very hard to do that if 00:08:21.125 --> 00:08:22.205 you do it in the theoretical. 00:08:22.545 --> 00:08:24.045 You have to bring people to it. 00:08:24.045 --> 00:08:25.925 You've got to put their fingers on the keyboards. 00:08:26.105 --> 00:08:27.205 You have to immerse them in it. 00:08:27.345 --> 00:08:28.845 And for us, because of the businesses 00:08:28.845 --> 00:08:30.405 that we're in, we want to control that. 00:08:30.405 --> 00:08:31.845 We want to make sure we're being responsible 00:08:31.845 --> 00:08:34.085 with our client's information and our firm's information, 00:08:34.465 --> 00:08:35.525 but we really need them in it. 00:08:35.585 --> 00:08:37.365 And that's what we've really been after. Yeah. 00:08:37.705 --> 00:08:40.125 And Hardy, how do you use it in your company 00:08:40.785 --> 00:08:42.325 or organisation? I 00:08:42.325 --> 00:08:45.445 think maybe before talking about use, 00:08:45.905 --> 00:08:47.365 let me talk about the challenge Yeah. 00:08:47.505 --> 00:08:49.125 In trying to get people to use it. 00:08:50.025 --> 00:08:53.325 And I think the real challenge that I find is going 00:08:53.465 --> 00:08:54.965 beyond the superficial. 00:08:55.035 --> 00:08:58.765 Yeah. I think that probably is 00:08:58.785 --> 00:09:02.085 for any leader, that's probably the biggest challenge 00:09:02.235 --> 00:09:05.485 that people will get exposed to the tools 00:09:05.585 --> 00:09:07.725 and they will do the simple things with the tools. 00:09:07.865 --> 00:09:10.005 Get it to write your email, get it to 00:09:11.045 --> 00:09:12.685 critique a document, 00:09:12.685 --> 00:09:15.205 but you're not going to invest the kind of money that's needed 00:09:15.705 --> 00:09:19.805 to transform organisations by people just writing email 00:09:19.805 --> 00:09:20.805 with ChatGPT 00:09:20.865 --> 00:09:23.445 or getting ChatGPT 00:09:23.465 --> 00:09:26.085 to help them research something that's 00:09:26.085 --> 00:09:27.365 pretty obvious. 00:09:28.065 --> 00:09:32.245 So, the real challenge is in getting 00:09:33.545 --> 00:09:35.565 the leadership, especially 00:09:36.115 --> 00:09:38.845 because every leader has got into 00:09:38.845 --> 00:09:42.085 where they are because they have become somewhat experts, 00:09:42.635 --> 00:09:46.405 they've got deep customer relationships. 00:09:46.405 --> 00:09:49.045 They're a leader because everybody in the organisation 00:09:49.265 --> 00:09:52.885 defers to them for knowledge, for judgment. 00:09:53.825 --> 00:09:56.285 and all of a sudden they have to be comfortable 00:09:56.995 --> 00:09:59.965 that somebody else has a lot more information 00:10:00.825 --> 00:10:03.365 and insights than they have coming into the room. 00:10:03.985 --> 00:10:06.525 So the question becomes, what's my role? 00:10:07.305 --> 00:10:10.205 So that's on one side. 00:10:10.225 --> 00:10:12.285 But within Cassava, I mean, 00:10:13.665 --> 00:10:15.525 we are a global tech company out of Africa. 00:10:15.785 --> 00:10:18.525 We probably face 00:10:18.675 --> 00:10:20.885 more challenges than most people 00:10:21.225 --> 00:10:23.365 in accessibility to technology. 00:10:23.945 --> 00:10:27.565 But we've been able to surmount that by 00:10:27.565 --> 00:10:28.805 the way that we hire people. 00:10:29.665 --> 00:10:32.685 We've been in the telecom space 00:10:32.705 --> 00:10:37.365 for the last 30-plus years. So a lot of our staff 00:10:37.545 --> 00:10:40.085 at one point, 70% of our staff were engineers. 00:10:40.585 --> 00:10:43.565 and only 30% were in other professions. 00:10:43.625 --> 00:10:48.525 So they come naturally curious. 00:10:48.525 --> 00:10:50.285 That's both good and bad. 00:10:51.145 --> 00:10:52.145 You don't want them to be too 00:10:52.145 --> 00:10:52.965 curious. 00:10:53.025 --> 00:10:54.485 We don't want them to be too curious. 00:10:55.265 --> 00:10:58.005 But interestingly, 00:10:59.065 --> 00:11:02.445 the IT department is the place where AI goes to die. 00:11:03.875 --> 00:11:05.365 Okay. How so? 00:11:05.985 --> 00:11:08.845 Hopefully, 00:11:08.945 --> 00:11:10.645 no CIOs in the room to 00:11:10.645 --> 00:11:11.645 be. 00:11:13.185 --> 00:11:14.325 You'll find out 00:11:14.325 --> 00:11:15.605 how many CIOs are in the room, right? 00:11:15.605 --> 00:11:16.965 When you walk out the front door. 00:11:18.435 --> 00:11:20.685 Look, I have a flight booked straight after this. 00:11:22.765 --> 00:11:24.005 I'm out of here. 00:11:24.545 --> 00:11:27.965 But I think seriously 00:11:27.965 --> 00:11:32.485 getting the CIOs to embrace the changes that are needed 00:11:33.385 --> 00:11:38.365 and the apparent loss of power that comes with, 00:11:38.385 --> 00:11:40.325 the IT department was this place 00:11:40.335 --> 00:11:43.845 where everything was concentrated, all projects 00:11:43.845 --> 00:11:47.165 of the organisation concentrated. Getting 00:11:47.775 --> 00:11:51.085 teams across the organisation to start to own 00:11:51.625 --> 00:11:52.685 the business question 00:11:52.745 --> 00:11:56.685 and the business answers, is really the 00:11:56.905 --> 00:11:58.005 challenge for us. 00:11:58.475 --> 00:12:00.005 Bolor, 00:12:00.025 --> 00:12:02.285 how are you using AI in your organisation? I 00:12:02.285 --> 00:12:04.565 I mean, we're AI company, so 00:12:04.905 --> 00:12:07.765 but building on what Hardy said where 00:12:07.775 --> 00:12:10.245 AI dies in the tech team. 00:12:10.865 --> 00:12:15.285 Many of our clients, especially clients 00:12:15.515 --> 00:12:18.285 that we work with who want to improve their efficiency. 00:12:18.815 --> 00:12:21.925 There, I found out that there is a big gap in 00:12:21.925 --> 00:12:25.085 between technical team and overall non-technical team. 00:12:25.645 --> 00:12:29.125 Because technical team, they don't know the normal procedures 00:12:29.265 --> 00:12:31.365 or progress of different teams, right? 00:12:31.945 --> 00:12:35.365 But we want to use AI for everyone's productivity 00:12:35.545 --> 00:12:37.005 and everyone's efficiency 00:12:37.005 --> 00:12:40.445 and we don't want it to be a burden that you have to adopt 00:12:41.225 --> 00:12:44.445 and adding more time that you have to do it. 00:12:44.545 --> 00:12:48.605 So rather than that, we need to make it more accessible. 00:12:49.385 --> 00:12:52.925 And this brings me to my next point 00:12:53.075 --> 00:12:56.085 that we work extensively on AI education 00:12:56.105 --> 00:12:58.565 and AI inclusion around the world. 00:12:58.665 --> 00:13:02.445 And one of the things that often ignored in many 00:13:02.445 --> 00:13:03.645 of these conferences is 00:13:03.645 --> 00:13:08.405 that 2.6 billion people are completely offline, who make up 00:13:08.405 --> 00:13:10.645 to 32% of the world's population. 00:13:11.345 --> 00:13:13.325 And it's, this is a big number. 00:13:13.625 --> 00:13:15.605 And 00:13:16.085 --> 00:13:18.365 I don't know if it's a politically correct thing to say, 00:13:18.425 --> 00:13:21.405 but you see all this — CEOs, CTOs, 00:13:21.785 --> 00:13:25.445 big tech companies having fancy dinner or Paris AI Summit 00:13:25.585 --> 00:13:28.525 and all this and that, but nobody mentions that. 00:13:28.985 --> 00:13:32.245 And, if you see what they're doing, yes, they're 00:13:32.355 --> 00:13:33.805 promising certifications, 00:13:34.025 --> 00:13:37.165 and everyone seems to set up academy on client, 00:13:37.225 --> 00:13:39.165 but it's only serving people who are 00:13:39.225 --> 00:13:41.165 already in the developed communities. 00:13:41.665 --> 00:13:46.125 So I think this is very important momentum for us, 00:13:46.785 --> 00:13:51.365 as human, as people living in same Earth 00:13:51.665 --> 00:13:56.525 to have very good communications 00:13:56.755 --> 00:14:01.325 with each other, and also help making AI 00:14:01.325 --> 00:14:05.845 as an enabler to kind of narrow down this divide. 00:14:06.155 --> 00:14:08.085 Yeah. So like, what are the challenges? 00:14:08.105 --> 00:14:09.125 So you were saying like, 00:14:09.785 --> 00:14:11.725 I'm glad you're all talking about AI, 00:14:11.745 --> 00:14:14.685 but we really need to talk about like, sort of access first. 00:14:14.755 --> 00:14:16.565 Like, we don't even have broad one technology, 00:14:16.595 --> 00:14:18.565 like maybe Hardy and you can talk a little bit, like, 00:14:18.565 --> 00:14:21.525 what do you want to see before we even talk about AI adoption, 00:14:22.075 --> 00:14:25.005 what are we not seeing the world needs? 00:14:26.425 --> 00:14:30.285 Look, I mean, AI sits at the 00:14:30.865 --> 00:14:35.645 at the top of a layer of infrastructure 00:14:35.645 --> 00:14:39.285 that needs to be there, from power 00:14:39.665 --> 00:14:43.605 to low-latency connectivity to cost of devices. 00:14:44.585 --> 00:14:48.245 So in an African setting, 00:14:48.265 --> 00:14:50.245 if you think about one of the challenges 00:14:50.245 --> 00:14:54.045 that we are grappling with is how do we bring the cost 00:14:54.185 --> 00:14:57.245 of access to the internet down to 00:14:57.875 --> 00:15:00.485 less than 10 cents a gigabyte? 00:15:00.625 --> 00:15:03.125 It's about, in some countries as high as a dollar. 00:15:04.025 --> 00:15:07.445 Now if you think about the average earnings of people 00:15:08.905 --> 00:15:12.445 to talk about AI certification to that person, 00:15:13.515 --> 00:15:15.445 it's almost like you're insulting them. 00:15:15.525 --> 00:15:16.845 I mean, you're talking to somebody who, 00:15:17.435 --> 00:15:20.125 they only switch on their WhatsApp 00:15:20.785 --> 00:15:21.885 in order to get a message. 00:15:22.065 --> 00:15:24.005 If there's anything that comes with an image, 00:15:24.395 --> 00:15:25.965 they're going to try and switch it off, 00:15:25.965 --> 00:15:28.965 because that's going to consume a lot of the 00:15:29.145 --> 00:15:32.245 internet package 00:15:32.245 --> 00:15:33.325 that they've actually bought. 00:15:34.105 --> 00:15:37.885 So what we have done as Cassava over the last 00:15:37.905 --> 00:15:42.125 20 years is to systematically deal with each 00:15:42.125 --> 00:15:43.285 of those problems. 00:15:43.285 --> 00:15:47.525 So we've built almost 110,000 kilometers of fibre 00:15:48.425 --> 00:15:52.205 across Africa, literally from Cape Town to Cairo 00:15:52.465 --> 00:15:55.965 and bringing fibre to the building, fibre to the home 00:15:56.105 --> 00:15:59.085 and then ensuring that the last mile, 00:15:59.085 --> 00:16:00.765 because the real economics is 00:16:00.765 --> 00:16:04.645 that it is the last one mile that's very costly for access. 00:16:05.385 --> 00:16:09.045 And so bringing fixed wireless access for 00:16:09.045 --> 00:16:10.765 that last one mile, making sure 00:16:10.765 --> 00:16:13.485 that there is community internet that's available, 00:16:14.115 --> 00:16:17.365 working with device manufacturers to make sure 00:16:17.365 --> 00:16:19.685 that we can get devices into schools 00:16:20.315 --> 00:16:23.925 that are at a price point where most parents can afford. 00:16:24.345 --> 00:16:27.605 So anything that's going to cost more than $50 00:16:27.705 --> 00:16:30.045 is just too expensive for adoption. 00:16:30.145 --> 00:16:33.805 You have to get the device down to sort of $20, $25. 00:16:34.225 --> 00:16:38.605 So, so the kind of challenges that are faced in the, 00:16:39.265 --> 00:16:42.485 let's say the next 1 billion users of AI 00:16:43.185 --> 00:16:45.525 are very different from the challenges 00:16:45.525 --> 00:16:49.845 that the first 1 billion users of AI have had to 00:16:49.845 --> 00:16:50.885 grapple with. 00:16:51.005 --> 00:16:52.405 I think whilst we sit 00:16:52.405 --> 00:16:55.125 and we talk about comparing models 00:16:55.305 --> 00:16:58.365 and outputs, there's a real challenge, 00:16:58.375 --> 00:17:02.325 which I think COVID showed, especially on our continent, 00:17:02.855 --> 00:17:05.205 where the difference between a child's 00:17:05.945 --> 00:17:10.485 having access to a classroom during COVID literally was, 00:17:10.745 --> 00:17:13.085 they could be staying 00:17:13.625 --> 00:17:14.725 10 kilometers apart. 00:17:15.265 --> 00:17:18.725 And what they had access to was so different. 00:17:19.305 --> 00:17:24.045 And so the digital divide was that much wider. 00:17:24.945 --> 00:17:26.765 Our job at Cassava and 00:17:26.765 --> 00:17:28.885 hence the name Cassava. Cassava, by the way, 00:17:28.905 --> 00:17:31.845 is the most widely eaten carbohydrate in Africa. 00:17:31.905 --> 00:17:34.405 So you'll find it in the villages. 00:17:34.425 --> 00:17:36.085 You can find it in the King's Palace. 00:17:36.705 --> 00:17:39.645 So we want technology to be as available, 00:17:40.545 --> 00:17:43.525 as accessible, as ubiquitous 00:17:43.785 --> 00:17:45.725 as the cassava plant is. Yeah. 00:17:45.945 --> 00:17:48.325 Well, is that something you feel too, like, 00:17:48.325 --> 00:17:51.125 before we even like, move into AI, I have to like, 00:17:51.175 --> 00:17:53.765 solve the infrastructure problem first? 00:17:54.165 --> 00:17:57.245 I mean, I completely agree with Hardy 00:17:58.165 --> 00:18:00.565 because behind AI divide 00:18:00.745 --> 00:18:05.085 and digital dividers, existing problems, poverty, 00:18:05.385 --> 00:18:07.245 hunger, infrastructure, 00:18:07.495 --> 00:18:10.525 750 million people do not have electricity. 00:18:11.305 --> 00:18:13.605 But on the other hand, 00:18:14.955 --> 00:18:17.205 just if we want to imagine 00:18:17.235 --> 00:18:20.925 that those 2.6 billion people had access to internet 00:18:20.925 --> 00:18:23.725 and AI, it would unlock trillions 00:18:24.105 --> 00:18:26.805 and trillions of dollars to the global GDP. 00:18:26.875 --> 00:18:30.405 Yeah. So when you see from the investment side, 00:18:30.585 --> 00:18:34.205 you see these tech companies are in fierce competition 00:18:34.205 --> 00:18:37.165 to develop ever more powerful AI models. 00:18:38.065 --> 00:18:40.885 But just one point I really want to make 00:18:40.885 --> 00:18:42.205 which I truly believe is 00:18:42.205 --> 00:18:45.325 that the technology should not be measured by 00:18:46.425 --> 00:18:47.725 its advancement. 00:18:47.755 --> 00:18:49.405 Now, it's time that we measure 00:18:49.545 --> 00:18:52.045 by its inclusiveness. 00:18:52.705 --> 00:18:55.645 And talk about like, how, like, that is sort 00:18:55.645 --> 00:18:58.125 of a challenge in leadership. 00:18:58.125 --> 00:19:00.165 Because I think what we often think of, 00:19:00.165 --> 00:19:02.325 like AI adoption in companies 00:19:02.385 --> 00:19:05.685 or organisations is sort of like, oh, 00:19:05.685 --> 00:19:07.645 let's make it more efficient, like you said, Hardy, right? 00:19:07.645 --> 00:19:09.325 Like, that's where their IT department comes in. 00:19:09.325 --> 00:19:10.605 They want to make things more efficient. 00:19:10.905 --> 00:19:13.045 But really the question is like, if we're living 00:19:13.045 --> 00:19:14.445 through like a paradigm shift, 00:19:14.445 --> 00:19:16.525 shouldn't we ask like, what's now? 00:19:16.525 --> 00:19:18.565 Like what's the new thing? Like, how could we actually like, 00:19:19.145 --> 00:19:20.365 change things up? 00:19:20.505 --> 00:19:23.685 And maybe any of you have like thoughts on that? 00:19:23.875 --> 00:19:25.885 Like, let's break down the structure 00:19:26.105 --> 00:19:27.885 and redo something totally new. 00:19:28.485 --> 00:19:30.925 It's a really, it's a great question, Hilke 00:19:31.005 --> 00:19:33.845 I think, and it's a great challenge to all of us, right? 00:19:33.845 --> 00:19:35.405 We're laying out 00:19:36.115 --> 00:19:38.565 what may be the leadership challenge of our lifetime, 00:19:39.375 --> 00:19:41.925 which is how do we actually, if we all agree, 00:19:42.185 --> 00:19:43.485 and we're here in Vienna together, 00:19:43.505 --> 00:19:45.725 so I'm going to assume we all agree that there's a reason 00:19:46.235 --> 00:19:48.125 that we're all assembling in Vienna. 00:19:48.125 --> 00:19:50.005 There's a reason that we're going to listen to TED Talks. 00:19:50.005 --> 00:19:51.805 There's a reason we're in the discovery sessions is 00:19:51.805 --> 00:19:55.125 because we're watching and seeing from potentially one 00:19:55.125 --> 00:19:57.405 of the best informed perspectives in the world. 00:19:58.195 --> 00:20:01.005 This life-changing generational technology, 00:20:01.025 --> 00:20:02.805 multi-generational technology, 00:20:03.505 --> 00:20:05.405 and way too many people don't have access to it. 00:20:05.865 --> 00:20:07.965 And way too many people, as we sit 00:20:07.965 --> 00:20:10.045 and talk in leadership organisations 00:20:10.045 --> 00:20:11.445 with investment and capability 00:20:11.465 --> 00:20:14.845 and an educated workforce, certainly the PwC world. 00:20:15.175 --> 00:20:18.085 These individuals, we're trying to bring them from a place 00:20:18.085 --> 00:20:20.725 of education and access to more education and access. 00:20:21.225 --> 00:20:23.245 We cannot forget the leadership obligation. 00:20:23.245 --> 00:20:25.125 We have to help open up that access 00:20:25.585 --> 00:20:27.605 and that connectivity to more. 00:20:28.025 --> 00:20:29.925 And I do think that that is a leadership challenge. 00:20:29.925 --> 00:20:32.605 That's a question of what obligation do we all feel 00:20:33.265 --> 00:20:35.485 and are we communicating that obligation? 00:20:35.625 --> 00:20:38.245 Are we advocating for that obligation in our organisations, 00:20:38.245 --> 00:20:40.765 particularly those organisations with investment capacity? 00:20:41.715 --> 00:20:45.245 I mean, adding to that, okay. 00:20:45.245 --> 00:20:48.205 Let's forget about the 2.6 billion people who are offline. 00:20:48.705 --> 00:20:51.165 But even in the most developed countries, 00:20:51.615 --> 00:20:54.685 there is a big divide too, between the poor 00:20:54.685 --> 00:20:56.485 and wealthy, between rural and urban. 00:20:57.305 --> 00:21:00.525 So for leadership, when we say you have 00:21:00.525 --> 00:21:02.485 to see from more inclusive side, 00:21:02.485 --> 00:21:05.445 it's not only talking about people in developing countries, 00:21:05.545 --> 00:21:08.005 but even in the most developed countries, 00:21:08.005 --> 00:21:11.725 there is a huge gap when you see 00:21:11.865 --> 00:21:13.885 how AI skills are being delivered 00:21:13.985 --> 00:21:17.885 or how it's being accessible to the poorest communities 00:21:18.185 --> 00:21:20.005 or even elder communities. 00:21:20.105 --> 00:21:24.645 So we are from 21:22 00:21:24.905 --> 00:21:27.645 design of AI ecosystem, 00:21:28.145 --> 00:21:32.285 we are designing it unknowingly, not intentionally. 00:21:32.795 --> 00:21:36.845 Designing it to be very divisive. 00:21:36.995 --> 00:21:39.525 Even in the developed countries, it's same. 00:21:40.065 --> 00:21:45.045 So again, building on what Joe said, we really have 00:21:45.065 --> 00:21:49.405 to look from the perspective that how do we ensure that 00:21:50.185 --> 00:21:54.525 the security guard of PwC or a cleaning lady 00:21:54.825 --> 00:21:58.405 or someone who works in that kind of job, 00:21:59.455 --> 00:22:02.005 would have access to AI skills 00:22:02.785 --> 00:22:05.605 and then maybe try to improve their lives 00:22:05.785 --> 00:22:08.405 Or improve their efficiency or whatever. Yeah. 00:22:08.405 --> 00:22:10.125 So you're saying like, break down the barriers. 00:22:10.125 --> 00:22:12.845 Yeah. Not only, like get it in the hands of like already, 00:22:12.875 --> 00:22:14.365 like your most educated workforce. 00:22:14.555 --> 00:22:18.045 Exactly. But like, actually like break down these like silos 00:22:18.065 --> 00:22:19.485 and like, make the upskilling 00:22:19.505 --> 00:22:22.205 and all of that accessible to anyone 00:22:22.265 --> 00:22:26.005 and break sort of out of their traditional 00:22:26.075 --> 00:22:28.885 like different sections of an organisation. 00:22:29.385 --> 00:22:30.685 Like, Hardy, 00:22:30.685 --> 00:22:32.405 what do you think in that kind of leadership, 00:22:32.955 --> 00:22:34.565 this new leadership that we are opening 00:22:34.585 --> 00:22:35.645 up, that we are envisioning? 00:22:37.215 --> 00:22:41.175 I don't know what I would call it, new leadership. 00:22:43.215 --> 00:22:45.455 I think the requirements 00:22:45.455 --> 00:22:49.735 of leadership haven't really changed for 6,000 years. 00:22:52.075 --> 00:22:53.575 We are trying to change them 00:22:55.005 --> 00:22:57.695 because a new set of tools that've come, 00:22:59.075 --> 00:23:01.375 and I think that's where the problem lies. 00:23:02.965 --> 00:23:05.375 Leaders have always been about trust. 00:23:05.685 --> 00:23:10.175 Leaders have always been about going for the greatest good. 00:23:10.785 --> 00:23:13.575 Leadership has always been about taking people 00:23:14.365 --> 00:23:15.615 into a brighter future. 00:23:16.515 --> 00:23:18.775 It hasn't been about exclusion. 00:23:19.035 --> 00:23:22.375 It hasn't been about beating your neighbour 00:23:22.375 --> 00:23:23.815 to death so that you win. 00:23:24.815 --> 00:23:28.535 I think what we're faced with is in fact 00:23:29.125 --> 00:23:32.095 this distancing from the ethos of leadership 00:23:32.725 --> 00:23:35.095 that humanity has known for a long time, 00:23:35.445 --> 00:23:38.975 because we believe that we are in the AI age 00:23:38.975 --> 00:23:41.535 and therefore in the AI age, there's a new way to lead. 00:23:42.115 --> 00:23:43.255 00:23:43.275 --> 00:23:45.765 And so we start to confuse speed with direction. 00:23:46.465 --> 00:23:49.725 So that, I think if we could go back 00:23:49.745 --> 00:23:52.205 to the basics of leadership 00:23:52.205 --> 00:23:54.685 what does it actually mean to be a leader? 00:23:55.185 --> 00:23:57.645 It has to mean for me 00:23:58.105 --> 00:24:02.085 as an African leader, Africa's population is young. 00:24:03.265 --> 00:24:04.845 median age is 19. 00:24:05.225 --> 00:24:08.725 I can't possibly walk into my office every morning 00:24:08.865 --> 00:24:12.765 and think the profitability of our company is going 00:24:12.765 --> 00:24:14.405 to be divorced from youth employment. 00:24:15.305 --> 00:24:18.325 That's the most important sustainability 00:24:18.565 --> 00:24:20.765 question of leadership that I must be faced 00:24:20.765 --> 00:24:23.485 with every morning when I get into the office. 00:24:24.105 --> 00:24:28.085 But if I divorce that, I start operating, 00:24:28.105 --> 00:24:29.325 because I say, well, 00:24:29.325 --> 00:24:31.485 we're operating in the AI age 00:24:31.485 --> 00:24:33.005 I've just been listening to Bloomberg. 00:24:33.005 --> 00:24:35.165 There's a new chip that has been 00:24:35.165 --> 00:24:37.845 announced and then PwC is doing this great thing, 00:24:37.865 --> 00:24:39.845 and there's this stuff happening in Mongolia. 00:24:40.185 --> 00:24:43.885 That now becomes, I think then 00:24:43.915 --> 00:24:47.005 that becomes a leadership fad rather than leadership. 00:24:47.425 --> 00:24:49.005 At least, that's my view. 00:24:49.235 --> 00:24:51.845 Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about sort of like 00:24:52.025 --> 00:24:53.205 the problem is like, we are living 00:24:53.205 --> 00:24:54.725 through like a time of uncertainty. 00:24:54.855 --> 00:24:57.245 Leadership is like usually to project confidence 00:24:57.245 --> 00:24:59.365 and like, lead the organisation in the future, 00:25:00.025 --> 00:25:02.685 but we are building the plane while we're flying it. 00:25:02.905 --> 00:25:04.165 So how do you like 00:25:04.465 --> 00:25:06.165 and I don't know if your 00:25:06.175 --> 00:25:08.685 folks could, going to be very excited if you say like, 00:25:08.685 --> 00:25:09.805 oh, I don't know any of the answers. 00:25:10.155 --> 00:25:11.485 I'll like, wait with you. 00:25:11.485 --> 00:25:13.725 That's probably not a good way. 00:25:13.755 --> 00:25:15.685 Like, so how do you deal with that? 00:25:15.925 --> 00:25:16.845 I thought we agreed Hardy 00:25:16.845 --> 00:25:17.965 was getting all the hard questions. . 00:25:19.045 --> 00:25:20.525 I thought we could establish that early on, 00:25:20.865 --> 00:25:22.725 but I'll take my best shot at it. 00:25:23.405 --> 00:25:26.565 I do think there is a 00:25:26.585 --> 00:25:29.165 and I love, Hardy, what you said, like the leadership, 00:25:29.225 --> 00:25:30.365 the fundamentals of leadership 00:25:30.365 --> 00:25:31.605 have not really changed. 00:25:32.225 --> 00:25:36.005 I do think that there is this moment right now 00:25:36.295 --> 00:25:39.165 where the uncertainty feels overwhelming to people. 00:25:39.705 --> 00:25:41.245 And to people 00:25:41.245 --> 00:25:42.525 and organisations all over the place. 00:25:43.065 --> 00:25:45.125 And the dual challenge is, while 00:25:45.125 --> 00:25:47.285 that uncertainty takes over the way that they feel, 00:25:47.825 --> 00:25:50.645 if you do not create a degree of confidence in the pathway, 00:25:51.195 --> 00:25:52.885 then all the things we're talking about, adoption 00:25:52.885 --> 00:25:55.445 and engagement and learning are even harder to do. 00:25:55.865 --> 00:25:58.205 At the same time, we owe our people the truth 00:25:58.305 --> 00:25:59.845 and we recognise that tasks 00:26:00.265 --> 00:26:01.805 and parts of jobs that exist today 00:26:01.865 --> 00:26:04.725 and whole jobs that exist today are not going 00:26:04.725 --> 00:26:06.285 to exist in the form that they're in today. 00:26:06.345 --> 00:26:08.845 And so this leadership trust question is, 00:26:09.265 --> 00:26:12.965 is it only about efficiency and moving the jobs 00:26:13.665 --> 00:26:15.445 or is it about bringing your people with you? 00:26:15.585 --> 00:26:17.725 And can you actually demonstrate 00:26:17.995 --> 00:26:19.165 that those aren't just words, 00:26:19.315 --> 00:26:20.725 it's a commitment to your organisation? 00:26:21.185 --> 00:26:23.485 And that to me is the leadership test 00:26:23.505 --> 00:26:24.845 that's being applied to leaders. 00:26:24.845 --> 00:26:27.125 Certainly, I feel it at PwC, 00:26:27.125 --> 00:26:28.845 and I know the rest of our leadership team does 00:26:29.235 --> 00:26:31.645 that we're going to make changes in the business model. 00:26:32.045 --> 00:26:35.285 I don't know whether we will be 375,000 people five years 00:26:35.285 --> 00:26:36.445 from now, 10 years from now. 00:26:36.825 --> 00:26:38.805 I do know that we have an obligation 00:26:38.825 --> 00:26:42.725 to the 375,000 people we have today to help prepare them 00:26:43.025 --> 00:26:45.765 and equip them for the, not only the world today, 00:26:45.825 --> 00:26:47.205 but the future that we're leading into. 00:26:47.435 --> 00:26:49.125 Yeah. So how are you doing this? 00:26:49.125 --> 00:26:52.245 Like, talk about like, prospecting, 00:26:52.345 --> 00:26:54.725 but also like maybe a tool that you applied and 00:26:55.555 --> 00:26:56.555 Yeah 00:26:56.555 --> 00:26:57.245 So I'll give a couple of examples. 00:26:57.325 --> 00:26:59.565 I mean and I love the example of 00:26:59.565 --> 00:27:01.925 whether it's 00:27:01.925 --> 00:27:03.125 the leaders in the organisation 00:27:03.125 --> 00:27:04.605 or whether it's the staff in the organisation 00:27:04.605 --> 00:27:05.725 that are just starting their career. 00:27:06.345 --> 00:27:09.165 We feel very strongly that people need 00:27:09.165 --> 00:27:12.005 to have AI skills and not just the superficial, right? 00:27:12.005 --> 00:27:13.845 They need to understand how to construct work. 00:27:14.305 --> 00:27:16.045 So last week we had a lot 00:27:16.045 --> 00:27:17.765 of our partners together for a global meeting. 00:27:17.825 --> 00:27:19.885 We did vibe coding sessions, right? 00:27:19.985 --> 00:27:22.005 So people that do vibe coding, 00:27:22.105 --> 00:27:23.525 I'm not sure you would've walked into the room 00:27:23.585 --> 00:27:24.725 and called this vibe coding, 00:27:24.785 --> 00:27:26.165 but just go with me here for a second. . 00:27:26.755 --> 00:27:28.845 What we did was we immersed a whole bunch of people 00:27:28.905 --> 00:27:31.005 who are not used to using tools like this. 00:27:31.145 --> 00:27:34.525 And we asked them to use the tools to create applications 00:27:34.525 --> 00:27:35.845 that would fulfill a client need. 00:27:36.105 --> 00:27:37.205 And we did it in an hour. 00:27:37.345 --> 00:27:39.965 We had them all sitting in the room working with the tools. 00:27:40.305 --> 00:27:42.285 We had developed some assistant capabilities 00:27:42.305 --> 00:27:43.685 to give them a framework around it. 00:27:44.025 --> 00:27:46.085 And what was so cool about it is, you had people 00:27:46.085 --> 00:27:49.525 that have been in the careers for 25, 30 years, all 00:27:49.525 --> 00:27:53.205 of a sudden for the very first time, they'd put hands 00:27:53.205 --> 00:27:54.845 to keyboard and created an application. 00:27:54.845 --> 00:27:56.445 And the application was a dashboard 00:27:56.445 --> 00:27:58.765 or whatever it was, the application didn't matter as much. 00:27:59.075 --> 00:28:00.845 What mattered as much was the light bulbs 00:28:00.845 --> 00:28:03.205 that went off over people's heads that things are changing. 00:28:03.745 --> 00:28:05.525 And that wasn't about making all 00:28:05.525 --> 00:28:07.805 of these leaders in the organisation coders, 00:28:08.235 --> 00:28:10.365 that was about making these leaders in the organisation 00:28:10.365 --> 00:28:11.685 understand the challenge of the teams 00:28:11.685 --> 00:28:13.445 and the staff that they were living with every day. 00:28:13.785 --> 00:28:15.445 And to get them engaged in the problem 00:28:15.705 --> 00:28:17.285 and get them engaged in the opportunity so 00:28:17.285 --> 00:28:20.045 that their people looking up at them have confidence 00:28:20.045 --> 00:28:21.565 that they actually understand the problem. 00:28:22.065 --> 00:28:23.845 And I think that is a very, 00:28:23.845 --> 00:28:26.165 very significant challenge of leadership right now, is 00:28:26.165 --> 00:28:27.805 that the teams, 00:28:27.985 --> 00:28:30.445 and we talked about the tenure and age. 00:28:30.695 --> 00:28:33.045 There is a tenure and age issue at play here. 00:28:33.425 --> 00:28:35.725 Our entry-level folks have been using 00:28:35.725 --> 00:28:36.885 these tools for five years. 00:28:36.955 --> 00:28:38.365 They are three years, four years. 00:28:38.785 --> 00:28:40.565 But they are not coming in dry. 00:28:40.795 --> 00:28:42.165 They're coming in with skills. 00:28:42.505 --> 00:28:44.645 If they're looking up at leaders who don't understand 00:28:44.645 --> 00:28:46.685 what they're talking about, that's a problem. Yeah. 00:28:46.835 --> 00:28:48.525 So you're trying to actually bring the leaders 00:28:48.735 --> 00:28:50.765 bring the leaders, bring the leaders, yeah. Here now, 00:28:51.265 --> 00:28:52.325 and the good news is 00:28:52.325 --> 00:28:53.485 I think the leaders are willing, 00:28:53.545 --> 00:28:55.565 but the, in some ways, the leaders, those people 00:28:55.565 --> 00:28:57.285 that have been in their careers for a longer period of time, 00:28:57.905 --> 00:29:00.885 in some ways, they are more secure, obviously, 00:29:00.885 --> 00:29:03.005 in where they are in their career, but they feel more at 00:29:03.075 --> 00:29:04.765 risk in the application of these technologies. 00:29:04.995 --> 00:29:07.565 And so how do you like, think about 00:29:07.565 --> 00:29:11.085 like how do I want to educate people 00:29:11.215 --> 00:29:12.565 about AI, the Global South? 00:29:12.565 --> 00:29:15.045 Like how, like what does your leadership look like? 00:29:15.465 --> 00:29:18.245 Adding on what Joe said, I think working 00:29:18.275 --> 00:29:21.445 with different companies, one of the very basic, 00:29:21.545 --> 00:29:24.605 but very important thing is to 00:29:24.705 --> 00:29:26.685 be on the same page on AI. 00:29:26.825 --> 00:29:31.765 So if you ask from your data analyst 00:29:31.985 --> 00:29:34.765 to your CIO, to different teams, 00:29:34.995 --> 00:29:38.685 they all have different take on AI personally, 00:29:38.745 --> 00:29:41.885 but also professionally when it comes to your organisation. 00:29:42.025 --> 00:29:46.205 So, I see a lot of companies are announcing AI strategy, 00:29:46.585 --> 00:29:50.485 AI vision, but when you really dive into it, a lot 00:29:50.485 --> 00:29:53.845 of people, there's a lot of misunderstanding. 00:29:54.505 --> 00:29:59.365 So one of the best approach that we work on 00:29:59.905 --> 00:30:04.405 is to have different sessions like you had, 00:30:05.105 --> 00:30:09.725 but bring the CEO to the most junior level people 00:30:10.305 --> 00:30:12.485 and make them, put them on the same page. 00:30:12.545 --> 00:30:14.765 And I think for organisation wise, I think 00:30:14.765 --> 00:30:19.565 that's very important as an organisation to understand 00:30:19.955 --> 00:30:22.165 this is how we're going to use AI 00:30:22.745 --> 00:30:25.925 and this is our vision, this part, we don't know. 00:30:25.925 --> 00:30:28.085 Yeah. So it's very important to be transparent. 00:30:28.465 --> 00:30:32.325 And on the Global South, especially 00:30:32.915 --> 00:30:33.925 Southeast Asia 00:30:33.925 --> 00:30:36.605 and Central Asia, connectivity wise 00:30:36.995 --> 00:30:38.005 it's going very well. 00:30:38.275 --> 00:30:39.365 It's going very well. 00:30:39.985 --> 00:30:42.525 In Mongolia we'll be shocked to know 00:30:42.555 --> 00:30:44.845 that we don't pay in cash anymore. 00:30:45.035 --> 00:30:48.325 It's almost 99% online payment. 00:30:49.065 --> 00:30:52.125 One of the projects I did when I was in government was 00:30:52.125 --> 00:30:53.325 called The Mongolia, 00:30:53.325 --> 00:30:57.085 with digitalised over 1200 government services. 00:30:58.065 --> 00:30:59.925 And it was adopted very well. 00:31:00.445 --> 00:31:02.485 Because we have nomadic communities 00:31:02.485 --> 00:31:03.765 living in the countryside. 00:31:04.745 --> 00:31:07.565 So imagine, you are someone living in the city. 00:31:07.905 --> 00:31:10.325 For you to go to the government facility 00:31:10.425 --> 00:31:12.685 and get your service, it would take 20 minutes. 00:31:12.945 --> 00:31:15.965 But for someone who's literally living in the middle 00:31:15.985 --> 00:31:18.045 of nowhere, for them to go 00:31:18.145 --> 00:31:20.805 to the government facility will take hours 00:31:21.065 --> 00:31:22.525 to drive, a lot of money. 00:31:23.345 --> 00:31:26.965 So within such short amount of time 00:31:27.545 --> 00:31:29.365 we delivered 1200 services. 00:31:29.585 --> 00:31:33.725 And today, 93% of Mongolia's population are actively using that. 00:31:34.385 --> 00:31:38.325 And by this, what I'm trying to say is that it has 00:31:38.345 --> 00:31:40.045 to meet people's needs. 00:31:40.065 --> 00:31:42.925 So AI has to be very practical. 00:31:43.185 --> 00:31:44.205 And now, 00:31:44.885 --> 00:31:46.925 because of all these uncertainties, there are a lot 00:31:46.925 --> 00:31:51.045 of fake news, a lot of superstitious things, a lot 00:31:51.045 --> 00:31:53.485 of crazy things online, right? 00:31:54.065 --> 00:31:58.685 And the best way is to, to be very practical, 00:31:59.025 --> 00:32:00.885 and give them efficiency tools 00:32:00.955 --> 00:32:03.325 that they can use easily and adopt easily. 00:32:03.465 --> 00:32:06.085 And I think that's the best way to start. 00:32:06.085 --> 00:32:07.205 So you have to listen to their 00:32:07.215 --> 00:32:08.845 needs and actually adapt to that. 00:32:08.865 --> 00:32:12.445 Yes. As a leader? Hardy, how does 00:32:12.445 --> 00:32:13.565 that work in your organisation? 00:32:14.185 --> 00:32:17.205 Look, I think AI is going to. 00:32:17.485 --> 00:32:19.125 I think you have to probably hold a little closer. 00:32:20.185 --> 00:32:21.885 So I must have said something controversial 00:32:21.885 --> 00:32:23.005 because this. 00:32:24.905 --> 00:32:26.645 So they killed the other one. 00:32:27.715 --> 00:32:31.925 Very good. I think one of the things 00:32:31.925 --> 00:32:36.125 that AI is bringing back to leadership is, 00:32:36.265 --> 00:32:39.645 is this, is something that had started to disappear. 00:32:40.275 --> 00:32:43.725 Something called humility. I think all of us 00:32:43.825 --> 00:32:46.565 as leaders have been trained to be confident. 00:32:47.185 --> 00:32:49.565 And we forgot that there's this tension 00:32:49.595 --> 00:32:51.805 between confidence and humility. 00:32:51.945 --> 00:32:55.805 And for the first time, to your point Joe, 00:32:56.105 --> 00:32:59.125 and to your point. When 00:32:59.125 --> 00:33:02.125 you put me in the same room on a lovable platform 00:33:02.155 --> 00:33:06.485 with an an entry-level 00:33:06.485 --> 00:33:10.205 analyst and we are trying to create something on 00:33:10.205 --> 00:33:13.605 that platform. Of course, he 00:33:13.605 --> 00:33:15.165 or she's going to create something quicker, 00:33:16.065 --> 00:33:18.165 better than I could ever do. 00:33:18.345 --> 00:33:20.685 and therein lies the humility. 00:33:21.225 --> 00:33:24.165 And with humility comes the ability to learn. 00:33:24.165 --> 00:33:25.325 In the context of Africa, 00:33:25.385 --> 00:33:26.525 that's very important 00:33:26.525 --> 00:33:28.965 because we are a high context, 00:33:29.955 --> 00:33:33.005 very hierarchical society 00:33:33.005 --> 00:33:35.445 which may be the same as Southeast Asia, where 00:33:35.445 --> 00:33:36.565 there is 00:33:36.795 --> 00:33:39.205 it's very much top down leadership. 00:33:39.355 --> 00:33:40.485 It's not egalitarian. 00:33:40.745 --> 00:33:45.125 So in that, the leader's behavior, 00:33:45.945 --> 00:33:49.525 if the leader starts to learn 00:33:49.595 --> 00:33:53.605 then people will take learning as something that they need 00:33:53.625 --> 00:33:55.605 to take on. 00:33:56.925 --> 00:34:00.805 I think one of the things that we are trying 00:34:00.825 --> 00:34:04.125 to do, is how do we bring 00:34:05.235 --> 00:34:07.885 digital transformation to government? 00:34:08.435 --> 00:34:10.125 Because one of the things that 00:34:11.145 --> 00:34:14.485 has been a limiting factor in our growth over the last 30 00:34:14.485 --> 00:34:19.325 years has been regulators that are 00:34:19.545 --> 00:34:21.645 so far behind where technology is. 00:34:22.265 --> 00:34:23.485 And 00:34:23.485 --> 00:34:25.445 when you ask a regulator something they don't understand, 00:34:25.445 --> 00:34:26.525 they've got a very good answer. 00:34:27.185 --> 00:34:30.845 And that good answer is just no. Rubbish. 00:34:32.635 --> 00:34:35.005 Okay. Don't do that. Okay. 00:34:35.105 --> 00:34:39.125 And so we are trying to get our right 00:34:39.145 --> 00:34:42.405 to pay this subsidy to regulators 00:34:42.705 --> 00:34:43.765 and governments. 00:34:44.185 --> 00:34:46.725 I think in the Global South, 00:34:46.725 --> 00:34:50.045 perhaps the biggest challenge that we have is 00:34:50.105 --> 00:34:52.765 how do we get governments to embrace technology 00:34:53.625 --> 00:34:55.925 as a key transformation agent? 00:34:56.665 --> 00:34:59.405 Because if you look at what needs to happen 00:34:59.425 --> 00:35:03.285 the difference between where population growth is 00:35:03.905 --> 00:35:07.885 and where GDP growth is, to bridge that divide 00:35:08.505 --> 00:35:13.445 for a young population requires such a transformation 00:35:13.585 --> 00:35:15.925 in the thinking of policy leaders. 00:35:16.625 --> 00:35:18.285 It's really 00:35:18.305 --> 00:35:21.245 for companies like us in the tech world that 00:35:21.245 --> 00:35:26.085 understand what's happening, that should be paying the cost 00:35:26.105 --> 00:35:30.205 of educating policy makers, educating leaders to say, 00:35:30.625 --> 00:35:32.085 let's embrace AI. 00:35:32.705 --> 00:35:35.565 Let's bring AI to 00:35:35.565 --> 00:35:39.845 you've got classrooms in Africa of 120 kids 00:35:40.035 --> 00:35:43.245 with one barely trained teacher. 00:35:43.625 --> 00:35:47.805 Now, imagine what AI could do. 00:35:48.905 --> 00:35:51.445 You've got a clinic 00:35:52.435 --> 00:35:56.845 that doesn't have a pharmacist, a radiologist 00:35:57.105 --> 00:35:59.005 and has a Chief Nurse as the one 00:35:59.005 --> 00:36:00.765 that's running the clinic. 00:36:01.465 --> 00:36:04.965 Imagine what AI does in that environment. 00:36:05.665 --> 00:36:09.965 You've got a whole district, maybe of, I don't know, 00:36:10.645 --> 00:36:14.295 500,000 people that maybe has got five, 00:36:14.395 --> 00:36:15.615 six trained agronomists. 00:36:16.135 --> 00:36:19.095 I mean, this is an area the size of Belgium in some cases. 00:36:19.875 --> 00:36:22.735 And you've got five, six trained agronomists. 00:36:23.235 --> 00:36:25.535 If we could amplify what they can do, 00:36:26.005 --> 00:36:29.975 because Africa now has a billion mobile phones, 00:36:31.105 --> 00:36:33.495 350 million smartphones. 00:36:34.195 --> 00:36:37.055 This is more smartphones than the US . 00:36:39.035 --> 00:36:41.455 So, we 00:36:41.515 --> 00:36:43.695 absolutely have an opportunity to, 00:36:43.955 --> 00:36:45.495 to transform using this. 00:36:45.845 --> 00:36:48.855 Yeah, you brought up humility, 00:36:49.035 --> 00:36:53.255 how do you take that into a large corporation like PwC 00:36:53.315 --> 00:36:56.495 and sort of think through, like, I have an obligation 00:36:56.495 --> 00:36:58.415 to folks who are already in the organisation. 00:36:58.655 --> 00:37:00.815 I want them to trust me, 00:37:01.515 --> 00:37:03.335 but at the same time, I want people 00:37:03.335 --> 00:37:04.575 to be adaptive and learning. 00:37:04.775 --> 00:37:05.935 I want to learn, like 00:37:05.995 --> 00:37:07.375 how do you make sense of all of that? 00:37:07.975 --> 00:37:09.295 I do think it comes down 00:37:09.295 --> 00:37:11.415 to the culture you create in the organisation. 00:37:11.475 --> 00:37:13.695 And I think we're coming back 00:37:13.715 --> 00:37:15.015 to the principles 00:37:15.015 --> 00:37:17.095 that have endured in leadership for a long time. 00:37:17.095 --> 00:37:18.215 We're talking about humility. 00:37:18.225 --> 00:37:20.015 We're talking about learning and constant learning. 00:37:20.015 --> 00:37:21.015 We're talking about trust. 00:37:21.035 --> 00:37:22.255 And I think that's exactly the 00:37:22.255 --> 00:37:23.335 right conversation, by the way. 00:37:23.355 --> 00:37:24.775 It is exactly the right conversation. 00:37:25.355 --> 00:37:27.415 So if an organisation is looking up at leadership 00:37:27.475 --> 00:37:28.855 who tells you that they know exactly 00:37:28.855 --> 00:37:30.655 what the organisation is going to look like in three 00:37:30.655 --> 00:37:31.975 to five years, and they know exactly 00:37:32.005 --> 00:37:34.535 what the AI is going to do, there's not a soul in 00:37:34.535 --> 00:37:35.735 that organisation that believes them. 00:37:36.035 --> 00:37:38.255 So it's not credible, it's not trustworthy. 00:37:38.675 --> 00:37:40.855 And you can start to deteriorate that trust very rapidly. 00:37:41.475 --> 00:37:44.295 If you're going to ask people to take a leap, 00:37:44.345 --> 00:37:45.415 which is what we're going to do. 00:37:45.415 --> 00:37:47.055 We're going to ask people, and we're already doing, 00:37:47.145 --> 00:37:49.535 we're asking people to rethink the way they work. 00:37:49.585 --> 00:37:51.015 We're asking people to take time 00:37:51.285 --> 00:37:54.055 that they spend doing tasks today for which 00:37:54.155 --> 00:37:55.695 we communicate their value to them. 00:37:55.715 --> 00:37:57.015 Oh, this is great. Thanks for doing 00:37:57.015 --> 00:37:58.215 that thing that took you four hours. 00:37:58.715 --> 00:37:59.735 And then we tell them, but we 00:37:59.735 --> 00:38:00.815 want you to do it in eight minutes. 00:38:01.275 --> 00:38:03.895 The human mind immediately goes to, well, what am I going to do 00:38:03.895 --> 00:38:05.935 with the other three hours and 52 minutes? 00:38:06.435 --> 00:38:07.655 And are you going to keep me around? 00:38:08.355 --> 00:38:12.495 And that requires this transparent discussion 00:38:12.495 --> 00:38:15.655 with your people about what you're really asking them to do. 00:38:16.235 --> 00:38:19.055 And I talk a lot about, with clients, 00:38:19.055 --> 00:38:21.135 clients are asking all the business side 00:38:21.135 --> 00:38:23.215 of this conversation very quickly goes to ROI, 00:38:23.215 --> 00:38:25.055 what's the ROI on all these investments we're making? 00:38:25.055 --> 00:38:26.175 We're making all these investments. 00:38:26.175 --> 00:38:28.815 We've got all these tools. Today, I would tell you 00:38:28.815 --> 00:38:31.135 that I think much of the ROI is accruing 00:38:31.135 --> 00:38:33.135 to the individuals in organisations 00:38:33.195 --> 00:38:34.615 and not to the enterprises. 00:38:35.125 --> 00:38:38.565 I think that's okay. But I think the next thing that we need 00:38:38.565 --> 00:38:42.005 to figure out is how to open that up so that the individuals 00:38:42.005 --> 00:38:44.125 who are accruing that benefit trust the 00:38:44.125 --> 00:38:46.485 organisation enough to share that story. Because a lot of 00:38:46.485 --> 00:38:47.485 them are happy too. 00:38:47.485 --> 00:38:48.965 So how do you get them to like, 00:38:48.965 --> 00:38:50.045 people use it individually 00:38:50.105 --> 00:38:53.005 and they change their workflow 00:38:53.105 --> 00:38:56.165 and are more efficient, like to get it 00:38:56.425 --> 00:38:58.645 up the leadership chain to actually see that, 00:38:58.865 --> 00:39:00.165 and believe in that? 00:39:00.165 --> 00:39:02.125 I think there are a couple things. I think one is in, both 00:39:02.185 --> 00:39:05.245 Bolor and Hardy hit it. 00:39:05.465 --> 00:39:07.725 One is you have to celebrate what works. 00:39:07.825 --> 00:39:09.045 And you have to celebrate when people 00:39:09.045 --> 00:39:10.085 make those contributions. 00:39:10.385 --> 00:39:13.125 And it isn't just celebrated in the C-suite, you have 00:39:13.125 --> 00:39:14.165 to celebrate the individuals 00:39:14.165 --> 00:39:15.485 who are doing it across your organisation. 00:39:15.865 --> 00:39:17.845 So we have, for example, a champions program. 00:39:17.985 --> 00:39:20.885 So all of our leaders have a reverse mentor, somebody 00:39:20.885 --> 00:39:22.285 that's less tenured in the organisation, 00:39:22.285 --> 00:39:23.765 that's helping them understand and train the tools. 00:39:23.945 --> 00:39:26.165 That's a huge opportunity for those individuals, right? 00:39:26.185 --> 00:39:28.525 So they get time and face time with leadership. 00:39:28.715 --> 00:39:29.965 They get to understand the strategy 00:39:30.025 --> 00:39:31.165 of the organisation. 00:39:31.165 --> 00:39:32.685 They get a view that they would not likely get 00:39:32.685 --> 00:39:33.725 at that stage of their career. 00:39:34.185 --> 00:39:35.245 And then you celebrate that. 00:39:35.265 --> 00:39:36.445 You make sure people know that 00:39:36.445 --> 00:39:37.605 those are the investments you're making. 00:39:38.025 --> 00:39:40.725 You recognise those individuals that are leading 00:39:40.825 --> 00:39:43.525 and taking that faith leap with you to make the changes. 00:39:44.225 --> 00:39:46.365 And I think you have to be credible 00:39:46.425 --> 00:39:48.365 and trustworthy in your communications as to 00:39:48.365 --> 00:39:49.485 what the business is doing and 00:39:49.485 --> 00:39:50.485 what the organisation is doing. 00:39:50.865 --> 00:39:52.805 It's not my line. It's a great line. 00:39:52.805 --> 00:39:54.445 Nobody ever did anything because of a number. 00:39:54.445 --> 00:39:55.485 They have to know the story. 00:39:55.905 --> 00:39:58.485 So you can't tell people that this is great 00:39:58.645 --> 00:39:59.765 because we're getting more efficient. 00:39:59.875 --> 00:40:01.045 I've never met an employee 00:40:01.105 --> 00:40:03.845 who gives a nickel care about whether 00:40:03.845 --> 00:40:05.205 or not the enterprise is efficient. 00:40:05.275 --> 00:40:07.125 They just don't. They care about their job 00:40:07.145 --> 00:40:09.525 and their growth and their mortgage and their family, 00:40:09.585 --> 00:40:10.605 and the things that are there. 00:40:10.865 --> 00:40:13.485 If you can't connect that, then you're going to lose them. 00:40:13.785 --> 00:40:16.445 And we have a wonderful cultural benefit of PwC. 00:40:16.645 --> 00:40:18.365 A lot of our people are early career. 00:40:19.005 --> 00:40:20.965 A lot of our people are looking to grow their career. 00:40:21.025 --> 00:40:23.525 So it is a wonderful laboratory for this. 00:40:23.545 --> 00:40:25.725 And not every organisation benefits from that. 00:40:25.785 --> 00:40:27.925 And can you talk about like, sort of, 00:40:27.925 --> 00:40:30.965 we always thought like leadership is like sort of top down. 00:40:31.025 --> 00:40:32.685 You like evaluate new technologies 00:40:32.785 --> 00:40:34.325 and you roll it out in the enterprise. 00:40:34.505 --> 00:40:36.885 And because it costs so much money 00:40:37.025 --> 00:40:39.565 to do this, but now, I mean, 00:40:39.675 --> 00:40:41.165 does it really cost that much money anymore? 00:40:41.165 --> 00:40:43.725 And can you do it differently? Yeah. 00:40:43.745 --> 00:40:45.165 I think you absolutely, 00:40:45.265 --> 00:40:46.805 not only can you do it differently, 00:40:46.925 --> 00:40:48.045 I think you have to do it differently. 00:40:48.065 --> 00:40:49.765 And I won't offend all the CIOs in the 00:40:49.765 --> 00:40:50.885 room the same way that Hardy did 00:40:52.025 --> 00:40:53.125 except to say 00:40:53.865 --> 00:40:56.405 and I say this with our CIOs all the time, 00:40:56.475 --> 00:40:58.285 like, the old model doesn't work anymore. 00:40:58.785 --> 00:41:01.245 The rapid development has to be part of the culture 00:41:01.865 --> 00:41:02.885 and the recognition 00:41:02.885 --> 00:41:04.125 that sometimes you're going to develop something 00:41:04.125 --> 00:41:05.725 that doesn't work and you're going to throw it overboard 00:41:05.725 --> 00:41:08.845 and move on is okay. That runs so counter 00:41:08.865 --> 00:41:10.085 to the way most of us have thought 00:41:10.085 --> 00:41:11.525 through the last 25, 30 years. 00:41:11.525 --> 00:41:13.245 We make investments, we're going to keep working at it 00:41:13.245 --> 00:41:14.885 it's large scale, it's going to take five years, 00:41:15.225 --> 00:41:16.285 and then once we're done, 00:41:16.285 --> 00:41:17.645 we're going to train everybody in how to do it. 00:41:17.645 --> 00:41:20.805 That's nonsense. It does not work in the environment today. 00:41:21.275 --> 00:41:24.085 Many, many more of the opportunities are created 00:41:24.085 --> 00:41:25.925 with small agents and small assistants 00:41:25.925 --> 00:41:28.845 and making the what I'll characterise respectfully 00:41:28.865 --> 00:41:31.285 as the small work we all do every day, making 00:41:31.285 --> 00:41:32.725 that small work work a lot better. 00:41:33.385 --> 00:41:35.365 Wow. And do you have any like examples of that? 00:41:35.395 --> 00:41:38.885 Like how, like you let people in all these, 00:41:38.965 --> 00:41:41.125 I mean, also like PwC has all these different, like, 00:41:41.125 --> 00:41:43.285 compliance, different places around the world. 00:41:43.285 --> 00:41:45.045 There's also another challenge, like 00:41:45.065 --> 00:41:46.085 how does it bubble up and 00:41:46.085 --> 00:41:48.245 how do you like give people time to do these 00:41:48.425 --> 00:41:51.325 Super important 00:41:51.515 --> 00:41:53.245 like just experimenting. It's 946 00:41:53.245 --> 00:41:56.405 all running smooth as glass and perfectly. 00:41:56.545 --> 00:41:59.365 So it's all seamless and integrated and wonderful. 00:41:59.905 --> 00:42:01.925 I'll give a very simple example. 00:42:01.985 --> 00:42:04.645 So most of us who've worked in consulting-type firms 00:42:04.705 --> 00:42:06.445 or have been purchases of consulting firms, 951 00:42:06.785 --> 00:42:08.965 we have a wonderful process called RFPs. 00:42:08.965 --> 00:42:10.045 Governments have these too. 00:42:10.585 --> 00:42:13.565 Just a show of hands, who has decided in their career 00:42:13.565 --> 00:42:15.725 that they really want to spend a lot of time on RFPs? 00:42:16.865 --> 00:42:18.205 So I've been doing it for decades, 00:42:18.385 --> 00:42:20.325 and I've never really enjoyed the process. 00:42:20.445 --> 00:42:21.565 I love the process of working 00:42:21.565 --> 00:42:23.845 with a client in the room, ideating. 00:42:23.885 --> 00:42:25.685 I hate the process of responding to an RFP. 00:42:25.865 --> 00:42:27.765 And by the way, I think most of our clients would probably 00:42:27.765 --> 00:42:28.845 admit they hate the process 00:42:28.905 --> 00:42:30.965 of reading the responses we send to the RFP. 00:42:31.225 --> 00:42:34.085 So we have what we call our BD.ai. 00:42:34.155 --> 00:42:36.685 It's a set of assets we've deployed that allows our people 00:42:36.685 --> 00:42:37.965 to take a lot of that time off 00:42:37.965 --> 00:42:40.205 of their plate, focus instead on developing the 00:42:40.205 --> 00:42:41.805 relationships, making sure the solutions are right. 00:42:41.815 --> 00:42:44.045 Think about the pricing and value exchange for clients. 00:42:44.385 --> 00:42:46.565 And that one is a great example 00:42:46.565 --> 00:42:48.485 because you don't have to convince people to use that. 00:42:48.865 --> 00:42:51.005 The moment they know it's available, they're all in 00:42:51.145 --> 00:42:52.605 and they're going after it. 00:42:52.835 --> 00:42:54.285 Yeah. And 00:42:54.485 --> 00:42:56.365 I want to look like a little bit into ethics 00:42:56.465 --> 00:42:58.365 and into the future, and then we want to open it 00:42:58.365 --> 00:42:59.485 up to all of your questions. 00:42:59.785 --> 00:43:02.645 But I wanted to see like 00:43:02.645 --> 00:43:04.525 what if you learn on like, what are the future 00:43:04.585 --> 00:43:05.925 of jobs going to look like? 00:43:05.925 --> 00:43:06.925 What are the future, like, 00:43:06.925 --> 00:43:08.205 what are you looking at new employees? 00:43:08.205 --> 00:43:10.405 Like has that changed what you're looking 00:43:10.405 --> 00:43:12.565 for in this new age? 00:43:12.935 --> 00:43:13.935 Hardy? 00:43:16.315 --> 00:43:17.315 What 00:43:19.755 --> 00:43:21.845 are we looking for? 00:43:22.155 --> 00:43:26.125 I think that we, 00:43:27.565 --> 00:43:31.445 I keep going back to this thing of confusing tools 00:43:32.355 --> 00:43:34.085 with sort of the baseline requirements. 00:43:34.205 --> 00:43:38.485 I think every organisation that I know is still looking 00:43:38.505 --> 00:43:40.485 for the same type of employee 00:43:41.075 --> 00:43:43.725 that organisations have always looked for. 00:43:44.625 --> 00:43:49.565 Hardworking, happy to be paid as little as possible. 00:43:54.035 --> 00:43:55.165 Have you found them yet? Yeah. 00:43:56.765 --> 00:43:58.085 I think the only problem is that, that's 00:43:58.085 --> 00:43:59.205 what the organisation wants. 00:43:59.255 --> 00:44:02.965 Thats not what the employees want, that ends the tension. 00:44:03.865 --> 00:44:06.965 But look, I think it's 00:44:06.995 --> 00:44:08.445 the lifelong learning. 00:44:08.995 --> 00:44:12.725 It's the comfort 00:44:12.995 --> 00:44:14.325 with experimentation. 00:44:15.105 --> 00:44:18.365 And I find, I think the biggest challenge that we 00:44:18.365 --> 00:44:22.525 as leaders are faced with is that we are now in an age 00:44:22.785 --> 00:44:24.125 of experimentation. 00:44:25.105 --> 00:44:29.805 And experimentation goes counter to the fact that 00:44:29.845 --> 00:44:31.645 I have 30 years of experience. Yeah, 00:44:31.985 --> 00:44:32.985 It makes us 00:44:32.985 --> 00:44:35.485 comfortable. So now you're trying to make me obsolete 00:44:35.545 --> 00:44:37.085 by all these experiments that 00:44:37.505 --> 00:44:40.685 you're running. So I think 00:44:41.185 --> 00:44:43.565 people that are comfortable with new things, 00:44:43.585 --> 00:44:48.485 people that are comfortable with failure, people 00:44:48.485 --> 00:44:52.485 that are comfortable with a startup culture 00:44:53.095 --> 00:44:54.925 which is counterintuitive 00:44:54.925 --> 00:44:57.925 because we all get into business 00:44:57.925 --> 00:44:59.005 to build big companies. 00:44:59.625 --> 00:45:02.885 That's kind of, it's almost like, 00:45:02.985 --> 00:45:05.005 sitting at the chess board and not wanting to win. 00:45:05.005 --> 00:45:06.005 You sit at the chessboard 00:45:06.165 --> 00:45:08.845 because you want to win. So you start a company, 00:45:08.865 --> 00:45:11.285 you want to build it, you want it to become successful, 00:45:11.395 --> 00:45:13.845 more profitable, hire a lot more people. 00:45:14.625 --> 00:45:17.285 And yet you still want to have 00:45:17.945 --> 00:45:21.085 people within the organisation that are willing 00:45:21.085 --> 00:45:22.485 to experiment, that are willing 00:45:22.945 --> 00:45:25.085 to look at new ways of doing things. 00:45:25.145 --> 00:45:30.085 People that have got a good dose of humility, 00:45:30.085 --> 00:45:33.165 whether or not we can find those people. 00:45:33.945 --> 00:45:38.275 I think that initially 00:45:39.055 --> 00:45:41.275 people are very happy to learn 00:45:41.725 --> 00:45:43.835 until they get into a position of authority. 00:45:44.205 --> 00:45:46.355 So it's the 00:45:46.355 --> 00:45:48.075 leaders that are having hardest time, 00:45:48.335 --> 00:45:49.335 So 00:45:49.335 --> 00:45:50.755 maybe, I mean, when we open it up, I will be 00:45:50.855 --> 00:45:53.955 I'm very curious to hear from people 00:45:53.955 --> 00:45:56.875 what happens when the people 00:45:56.905 --> 00:45:59.435 that have been eager to learn 00:45:59.435 --> 00:46:02.195 because I think learning has been used as a tool, 00:46:03.015 --> 00:46:05.195 and maybe that's a fault of leadership, as a tool 00:46:05.295 --> 00:46:06.875 to differentiate people. 00:46:06.975 --> 00:46:09.435 The fast learners are the ones 00:46:09.435 --> 00:46:12.395 that then rise up the organisation. 00:46:12.655 --> 00:46:14.715 So, it'll be interesting to hear from others. 00:46:15.185 --> 00:46:17.315 Yeah. Bolor what have you found out? 00:46:17.315 --> 00:46:18.515 Like, how are jobs changing? 00:46:18.825 --> 00:46:21.555 Like how does leadership need to adapt to that? I 00:46:21.555 --> 00:46:24.115 mean, lot of things that Hardy said 00:46:24.235 --> 00:46:28.235 I could relate. When I was working in the government, 00:46:28.575 --> 00:46:32.275 when we were introducing the digitalisation, 00:46:32.285 --> 00:46:36.755 there was a big protest from within the government. 00:46:37.115 --> 00:46:41.835 Because a lot of people 00:46:41.945 --> 00:46:44.275 they thought I was making them unemployable 00:46:44.415 --> 00:46:46.315 or replacing them with technology. 00:46:46.375 --> 00:46:48.995 And this fear has always existed. 00:46:49.495 --> 00:46:54.035 And for future of jobs, the World Bank studies shows 00:46:54.035 --> 00:46:58.955 that by 2030, 50% of the jobs will require AI skills. 00:46:59.015 --> 00:47:02.075 And I think that's quite a relatable number. 00:47:02.975 --> 00:47:05.235 But again, most of the companies 00:47:05.235 --> 00:47:08.075 and organisations are 00:47:08.075 --> 00:47:09.195 willing to train. 00:47:09.935 --> 00:47:14.475 a one of the thing, I want to talk about 00:47:14.495 --> 00:47:16.715 one of our 00:47:17.835 --> 00:47:19.875 students who's 65 years old, 00:47:20.215 --> 00:47:24.515 and he, trust me when I say this, he's the most successful 00:47:25.135 --> 00:47:26.715 AI learner I've seen so far. 00:47:27.975 --> 00:47:30.845 And he built his own AI model of, 00:47:31.145 --> 00:47:34.605 and he created this family tree for himself. 00:47:35.025 --> 00:47:38.165 And he comes from very rural Mongolia. 00:47:38.185 --> 00:47:41.885 And he thought in his village, it's too small population 00:47:41.985 --> 00:47:45.765 and people are not knowing their 00:47:46.145 --> 00:47:47.845 second cousins, third cousins. 00:47:48.025 --> 00:47:49.845 So, they need to know who's your family 00:47:49.865 --> 00:47:51.165 member and stuff like that. 00:47:51.665 --> 00:47:54.285 So he created this platform 00:47:54.825 --> 00:47:56.845 as his side hustle, as his hobby. 00:47:57.105 --> 00:48:01.245 And he registered 9,000 families. Wow. 00:48:01.505 --> 00:48:04.005 And now it's applicable nationwide. 00:48:04.185 --> 00:48:06.725 You can just use it for free. And he just did it. 00:48:06.825 --> 00:48:09.445 And he did it after two months of training. 00:48:09.865 --> 00:48:10.925 So this is such a, 00:48:11.025 --> 00:48:14.125 and trust me, also on the other side, we have a bunch 00:48:14.125 --> 00:48:17.125 of young people that we've been trying so hard to train them 00:48:17.185 --> 00:48:18.325 and they don't seem to learn . 00:48:19.065 --> 00:48:22.645 So again, it's the perspective, it's the attitude, 00:48:22.905 --> 00:48:25.525 it's the level of adaptability, right? 00:48:25.825 --> 00:48:29.725 And I think the best way to 00:48:30.745 --> 00:48:34.165 go for it is to have a very smooth transition 00:48:34.465 --> 00:48:36.685 in the times of uncertainty. 00:48:36.875 --> 00:48:38.605 While you all getting all your questions ready, 00:48:38.905 --> 00:48:40.485 I have one more. 00:48:40.485 --> 00:48:42.085 We talked a lot about the AI skills 00:48:42.265 --> 00:48:43.445 you need to have. Is he looking 00:48:43.445 --> 00:48:44.445 for a job? 00:48:44.445 --> 00:48:45.085 I mean. 00:48:45.545 --> 00:48:46.545 Hardy is hiring. 00:48:47.875 --> 00:48:51.845 Well, I can send him to work. He sounds very expensive though. 00:48:53.825 --> 00:48:55.285 We talked a lot about AI skills. 00:48:55.355 --> 00:48:57.125 What does that actually mean when we say 00:48:57.125 --> 00:48:58.285 that you need to have AI skills? 00:48:58.285 --> 00:48:59.565 Well, what does that mean? You need 00:48:59.565 --> 00:49:01.365 to like prompt ChatGPT. 00:49:01.395 --> 00:49:03.325 Like what are you saying? So, 00:49:03.325 --> 00:49:04.605 two things. 00:49:04.745 --> 00:49:07.645 One, we do a study on jobs every year. 00:49:07.665 --> 00:49:09.365 We call the AI Jobs Barometer. 00:49:09.625 --> 00:49:11.605 It'll be updated here shortly. 00:49:12.115 --> 00:49:15.005 When we looked at AI skills broadly, which we defined 00:49:15.025 --> 00:49:17.405 as the ability to apply, we defined it very, very broadly. 00:49:17.685 --> 00:49:18.965 Because I think that's changing every minute, 00:49:18.965 --> 00:49:20.565 what we really mean by AI skills. 00:49:20.865 --> 00:49:22.245 But when we looked at AI skills 00:49:22.305 --> 00:49:23.325 and we asked the question whether 00:49:23.325 --> 00:49:25.645 or not individuals had them, regardless of what industry 00:49:25.645 --> 00:49:28.445 and operating role they were in, shocker, 00:49:28.465 --> 00:49:30.285 you'll all be surprised to learn that 00:49:30.285 --> 00:49:31.365 what the data tells us is 00:49:31.365 --> 00:49:32.765 that those individuals are valued more 00:49:32.765 --> 00:49:33.845 highly and they're paid more highly. 00:49:33.865 --> 00:49:35.805 And sometimes the premiums were up to 56%. 00:49:36.185 --> 00:49:38.485 It was a massive premium for AI skills. 00:49:39.125 --> 00:49:41.045 I think the reality is lots of organisations don't know 00:49:41.045 --> 00:49:42.365 what they mean when they say AI skills. 00:49:42.425 --> 00:49:44.245 And when you go through the stack of like, 00:49:44.245 --> 00:49:45.445 do I need engineering capability? 00:49:45.465 --> 00:49:47.325 Do I need people that understand how to train models? 00:49:47.385 --> 00:49:49.245 Do I need people that understand how to use tools? 00:49:49.345 --> 00:49:50.965 Do I need people to need build agents? 00:49:51.365 --> 00:49:52.645 I think it's all of those things, 00:49:52.825 --> 00:49:53.885 and you can be in a lot 00:49:53.885 --> 00:49:55.365 of different places on the continuum. 00:49:55.945 --> 00:49:58.325 But I do think that 00:49:58.325 --> 00:49:59.925 and I loved Bolor, your comment about 00:50:00.105 --> 00:50:01.325 AI needs to be practical. 00:50:02.005 --> 00:50:04.245 I do think when we're starting to talk about skills 00:50:04.345 --> 00:50:07.285 and jobs, we have to get really practical about what 00:50:07.285 --> 00:50:09.165 that intersection looks like in our organisations. 00:50:09.185 --> 00:50:10.645 And that requires planning and thought 00:50:10.665 --> 00:50:14.045 and specific documentation, if you will, like that. 00:50:14.045 --> 00:50:16.445 Just work through the details of it to make sure 00:50:16.445 --> 00:50:18.365 that you're understanding what it is you're really expecting 00:50:18.365 --> 00:50:20.005 people to apply from a skills perspective. 00:50:20.195 --> 00:50:22.525 Yeah. And Hardy, how do you make sure you have like, 00:50:22.865 --> 00:50:25.685 the trust, the ethics, like the values 00:50:25.825 --> 00:50:29.125 of the organisation still there, right? 00:50:29.125 --> 00:50:31.005 Like you ask people to like experiment, 00:50:31.005 --> 00:50:33.405 but you also want to make sure they don't use like client data 00:50:33.545 --> 00:50:36.285 or like personal information and throw that in there 00:50:36.285 --> 00:50:38.205 because they want to make workflow more efficient. 00:50:38.205 --> 00:50:40.685 Can you talk about that? How do you keep like those 00:50:40.745 --> 00:50:43.965 ethical things that we have strived for decades 00:50:44.105 --> 00:50:47.085 to sort of implement and keep that still there? 00:50:48.395 --> 00:50:52.605 Yeah. I think if you go for the enforcement approach 00:50:52.865 --> 00:50:56.845 and my Chief AI officer is here 00:50:56.845 --> 00:51:01.365 and remember when ChatGPT first came out, 00:51:02.135 --> 00:51:04.005 first email out. Don't 00:51:04.085 --> 00:51:05.085 touch it. I own up, 00:51:07.405 --> 00:51:10.645 I send out this email 00:51:10.905 --> 00:51:12.605 you are not allowed to use this thing. 00:51:12.825 --> 00:51:14.565 this is going to expose our data. 00:51:15.355 --> 00:51:17.125 And 00:51:17.125 --> 00:51:18.565 then one day I thought to myself, 00:51:18.745 --> 00:51:21.445 how many people really ignored this email? I think 00:51:21.445 --> 00:51:22.445 99% 00:51:23.945 --> 00:51:28.165 just said, well, how is he ever going to know? 00:51:29.745 --> 00:51:32.165 And the truth is, how are you ever going to know? 00:51:32.585 --> 00:51:34.765 I think the cost of monitoring 00:51:34.765 --> 00:51:37.205 what people are doing is very high. 00:51:37.345 --> 00:51:38.965 People don't like to be monitored. 00:51:39.785 --> 00:51:42.725 I think it's going back 00:51:42.825 --> 00:51:44.725 to the values of the organisation. 00:51:45.635 --> 00:51:49.165 It's really getting people to understand the why 00:51:49.315 --> 00:51:52.805 that this is about the way that we do things. 00:51:52.915 --> 00:51:54.725 This is about the way that we win. 00:51:54.795 --> 00:51:57.845 This is about the way that we respect our clients. 00:51:58.005 --> 00:52:00.645 I mean, one of our overarching principles at Cassava 00:52:01.345 --> 00:52:02.645 is stewardship. 00:52:03.145 --> 00:52:05.605 We are the stewards of the trusts 00:52:06.105 --> 00:52:09.525 of our customers, and we should never abuse that. 00:52:09.665 --> 00:52:13.445 So we use that as the basis, for getting people 00:52:13.585 --> 00:52:15.725 to behave responsibly with AI. 00:52:16.185 --> 00:52:18.885 But I think if you can print as many posters 00:52:18.885 --> 00:52:21.125 as you like, put them in the escalator, on the walls, 00:52:21.625 --> 00:52:22.845 AI ethics. 00:52:22.905 --> 00:52:27.205 And I think we are trying to link it back 00:52:27.205 --> 00:52:30.365 to our values, to the values of the organisation 00:52:30.365 --> 00:52:33.085 and getting people to understand this is why this is right, 00:52:33.185 --> 00:52:34.565 and this is why this is wrong. 00:52:36.825 --> 00:52:39.205 Any questions? Yes, go ahead. 00:52:40.085 --> 00:52:42.805 I think somebody is running to get your microphone. 00:52:47.065 --> 00:52:49.125 Thank you very much. This was quite exciting 00:52:49.145 --> 00:52:50.845 and I have been working also in technology 00:52:50.905 --> 00:52:53.685 and applying technology a lot of times in Telcos. 00:52:54.705 --> 00:52:58.565 The one thing, I think this discussion feels new, 00:52:58.665 --> 00:53:00.325 but it's actually an old discussion, 00:53:00.325 --> 00:53:03.565 which is like two added elements is 90% 00:53:03.565 --> 00:53:05.245 of digital transformations fail. 00:53:06.025 --> 00:53:08.685 All the reasons why digital transformations fail are the 00:53:08.685 --> 00:53:10.925 same reasons why AI transformations fail. 00:53:11.195 --> 00:53:12.645 There are just two additional things. 00:53:12.695 --> 00:53:15.285 There is this high level, there's more fear 00:53:17.835 --> 00:53:18.885 high, no, three things, 00:53:18.885 --> 00:53:22.085 higher speed of change. 00:53:22.665 --> 00:53:25.645 And some ethical and legal guys have more 00:53:25.685 --> 00:53:26.685 opinions. 00:53:28.515 --> 00:53:30.325 What is your point of view of that? 00:53:30.395 --> 00:53:32.285 It's just to go back to really the basics, 00:53:32.285 --> 00:53:33.845 because I think those companies 00:53:33.845 --> 00:53:36.365 who fail in digital transformation should first understand 00:53:36.365 --> 00:53:38.605 why they failed there before starting 00:53:38.605 --> 00:53:39.725 to reinventing their will for AI. 00:53:39.875 --> 00:53:40.875 Yeah. 00:53:41.425 --> 00:53:43.645 So talk about failure. Sure. 00:53:44.355 --> 00:53:45.565 I've got a lot of stories on failure. 00:53:45.665 --> 00:53:47.085 How much time do we have ? 00:53:47.665 --> 00:53:49.165 I think, 00:53:49.445 --> 00:53:52.005 I love your three points about why these things are failing. 00:53:52.225 --> 00:53:54.045 and I say to clients all the time, 00:53:54.585 --> 00:53:56.445 if you're looking at AI and you're thinking about this 00:53:56.445 --> 00:53:57.645 and saying, I've got to apply AI 00:53:57.645 --> 00:53:59.365 and that is somehow different than 00:53:59.365 --> 00:54:00.805 what you did five years ago when you said, 00:54:00.805 --> 00:54:03.245 what is this technology going to deliver for my organisation? 00:54:03.245 --> 00:54:04.245 Then you're missing a really, 00:54:04.245 --> 00:54:05.565 really important fundamental question. 00:54:06.185 --> 00:54:08.565 If you're in a for-profit organisation, 00:54:08.565 --> 00:54:09.645 you're applying technology 00:54:09.645 --> 00:54:11.365 to get you a better outcome for the business. 00:54:11.785 --> 00:54:13.285 If you don't know what the outcome you're 00:54:13.285 --> 00:54:14.285 after, you're going to fail. 00:54:14.385 --> 00:54:16.005 So that's the first, the second, 00:54:16.045 --> 00:54:17.045 I love your point on speed. 00:54:17.705 --> 00:54:20.725 And Hardy, you hit this point too. 00:54:21.155 --> 00:54:23.725 This, this idea that speed is an objective in its own 00:54:23.725 --> 00:54:25.085 right, is dangerous. 00:54:25.505 --> 00:54:28.245 And the technology is moving at an incredible pace. 00:54:28.265 --> 00:54:30.085 We all recognize that. We all feel it, 00:54:30.465 --> 00:54:33.285 but sometimes we have this tendency to want to match the pace 00:54:33.285 --> 00:54:34.325 of the technology innovation. 00:54:34.545 --> 00:54:37.525 And what we need to be doing is pacing the change for 00:54:37.545 --> 00:54:39.525 how our organisation can actually digest it. 00:54:39.605 --> 00:54:41.125 And by the way, that may include our clients, 00:54:41.515 --> 00:54:42.805 that may include our customers 00:54:42.805 --> 00:54:44.285 because they're not ready for the change 00:54:44.285 --> 00:54:45.645 of the pace that we need to drive. 00:54:45.945 --> 00:54:47.685 So I think pacing is really important. 00:54:47.945 --> 00:54:51.885 Having said that, there's a great Harvard article, 00:54:51.885 --> 00:54:52.965 sorry, it's not a Princeton article. 00:54:53.185 --> 00:54:55.045 but there's a Harvard article 00:54:55.045 --> 00:54:56.485 that Andy Jassy did an interview 00:54:56.505 --> 00:54:58.765 and he talks about speed as a management decision. 00:54:59.345 --> 00:55:00.765 And it's a really good read. 00:55:00.875 --> 00:55:02.805 It's a really good read. I think you have 00:55:02.805 --> 00:55:05.085 to be deliberate about what speed you're taking, 00:55:05.465 --> 00:55:06.845 and make sure you don't live in a place 00:55:06.845 --> 00:55:09.885 where you're just letting things percolate 00:55:09.885 --> 00:55:11.485 because it feels more comfortable. 00:55:11.625 --> 00:55:13.885 So, just a couple reactions to two of your three. 00:55:14.715 --> 00:55:16.725 Yeah. Any other questions? 00:55:16.945 --> 00:55:18.805 There's a hand in the back. 00:55:24.515 --> 00:55:25.515 Yeah, thank you. 00:55:25.745 --> 00:55:27.805 You are talking about speed now 00:55:28.305 --> 00:55:30.205 and you are also talking about trust. 00:55:30.865 --> 00:55:34.605 But the reality is, as a CEO, we are more 00:55:34.605 --> 00:55:38.285 or less used to make decisions based on uncertainties. 00:55:38.355 --> 00:55:42.765 Yeah. But, now it feels different. 00:55:43.065 --> 00:55:45.485 So today, it feels totally different. 00:55:45.585 --> 00:55:47.165 So how do you make decisions? 00:55:47.165 --> 00:55:49.965 Because all the experiments that you do fail , 00:55:50.365 --> 00:55:52.245 you have no idea which direction you're going, 00:55:52.865 --> 00:55:55.725 and everybody can hit you from any side . 00:55:56.385 --> 00:56:00.565 So it's like you are in a chaotic situation 00:56:00.565 --> 00:56:02.845 and you have to make decisions and feel like comfortable, 00:56:03.625 --> 00:56:04.645 but actually you're not . 00:56:05.265 --> 00:56:07.205 So how do you solve this problem? 00:56:09.505 --> 00:56:12.205 How do you do that Hardy, but look at you as a CEO. 00:56:14.105 --> 00:56:18.365 Wow. I've been offered up as an offering here. 00:56:19.585 --> 00:56:23.990 So, I mean, here's what comes to my mind. 00:56:24.425 --> 00:56:28.485 If you go back to 00:56:30.465 --> 00:56:35.005 the time when shipping containers showed up, 00:56:35.945 --> 00:56:40.405 we forget that somebody had 00:56:40.405 --> 00:56:43.605 to think about coming up with a shipping container. Up to 00:56:43.605 --> 00:56:46.245 that time, everything that was being shipped 00:56:46.865 --> 00:56:50.445 was being shipped as bread bulk 00:56:50.865 --> 00:56:52.525 and in pallets. 00:56:52.665 --> 00:56:56.525 And, you couldn't caught it properly. 00:56:56.985 --> 00:56:59.605 the shipping container 00:56:59.725 --> 00:57:02.205 kind of standardised things and 00:57:02.225 --> 00:57:06.205 and changed the way that leaders had 00:57:06.205 --> 00:57:08.645 to make decisions in that industry 00:57:08.665 --> 00:57:10.165 in the supply-chain management. 00:57:10.355 --> 00:57:13.895 Because all of a sudden the guy 00:57:13.895 --> 00:57:17.455 who is operating a truck or a railroad 00:57:18.155 --> 00:57:20.935 or a ship knows exactly 00:57:21.725 --> 00:57:23.255 what a shipping container looks like, 00:57:23.875 --> 00:57:25.335 and it has got these dimensions. 00:57:25.355 --> 00:57:28.135 And therefore I can, 00:57:28.155 --> 00:57:32.975 and I think today as a CEO, 00:57:34.135 --> 00:57:37.815 I have to really spend the time differentiating between 00:57:39.235 --> 00:57:43.375 the tools and the solutions 00:57:43.515 --> 00:57:48.135 and spending the time to really think what is the solution 00:57:48.885 --> 00:57:50.455 that I need to come up with. 00:57:50.555 --> 00:57:53.215 The shipping container was and it's a tool 00:57:53.215 --> 00:57:55.055 that was introduced in the supply chain. 00:57:56.815 --> 00:58:00.415 Singapore came up with the solution 00:58:00.475 --> 00:58:04.495 of having the port with the 00:58:04.515 --> 00:58:05.695 the deep berths. 00:58:05.715 --> 00:58:07.335 And 00:58:07.335 --> 00:58:08.935 it's not about the location of Singapore. 00:58:09.355 --> 00:58:13.935 So I think it is the premium on judgment 00:58:14.045 --> 00:58:18.575 that we all now have to focus on as leaders. 00:58:19.675 --> 00:58:23.495 And the judgment is about can I really differentiate 00:58:23.605 --> 00:58:27.615 between the tools which are proliferating everywhere 00:58:28.595 --> 00:58:31.895 and the solutions that really impact the way 00:58:31.895 --> 00:58:33.975 that my customers are going to succeed. 00:58:34.635 --> 00:58:39.055 So hopefully, I didn't 00:58:39.125 --> 00:58:40.255 confuse you further with 00:58:40.255 --> 00:58:41.735 that. 00:58:41.735 --> 00:58:44.655 But Bolor, how do you judge new technology that slice? 00:58:44.915 --> 00:58:47.055 I'm sure you get a thousand pictures a day, 00:58:47.125 --> 00:58:48.295 like of AI tools. 00:58:48.295 --> 00:58:49.775 Like this is cool stuff, cool stuff. 00:58:49.775 --> 00:58:51.855 Like how do you, how do you judge that? 00:58:53.035 --> 00:58:54.975 I would say two points. 00:58:55.355 --> 00:58:59.575 The first one is we have to see what problem 00:59:00.125 --> 00:59:04.455 that AI is trying to solve and really prioritising that 00:59:04.855 --> 00:59:07.895 because there are 1000 models, 00:59:08.315 --> 00:59:10.615 new things launching every day on AI, 00:59:10.615 --> 00:59:12.615 and it's very hard to prioritise. 00:59:12.795 --> 00:59:14.575 But I think it's very important 00:59:14.645 --> 00:59:18.895 that we see it from the problem side and what is the urgency 00:59:18.895 --> 00:59:21.925 and what is this problem 00:59:22.235 --> 00:59:24.645 that you would prioritise and invest 00:59:24.705 --> 00:59:26.405 and put your effort into it. 00:59:26.625 --> 00:59:30.485 And even if it fails, it's worth the shot. 00:59:31.285 --> 00:59:33.325 Because you wanted to solve the biggest problem 00:59:33.905 --> 00:59:37.285 or the right problem, or the most urgent problem. 00:59:37.505 --> 00:59:42.125 So I think in the midst of all this AI chaos, we need 00:59:42.125 --> 00:59:43.685 to sit down and take a breath 00:59:43.745 --> 00:59:46.885 and really see what kind of problem it's trying to solve. 00:59:47.025 --> 00:59:50.605 And even within the organisation to the national level, 00:59:51.065 --> 00:59:52.085 to the global level. 00:59:52.745 --> 00:59:55.925 Second, to be honest, now a lot of 00:59:56.485 --> 00:59:59.805 companies are rushing into AI when they don't have the 00:59:59.805 --> 01:00:04.725 readiness, data readiness, team readiness, capacity. 01:00:04.905 --> 01:00:08.885 And from outside perspective, I can see some 01:00:08.885 --> 01:00:11.565 of my clients already failing even before this step 01:00:11.845 --> 01:00:13.965 because the data is not qualified. 01:00:13.995 --> 01:00:15.965 They don't have the good quality data. 01:00:16.945 --> 01:00:20.205 And you'll have a CEO reading all this Financial Times 01:00:20.305 --> 01:00:22.085 and fancy news, and he wants 01:00:22.105 --> 01:00:25.565 to be talking about AI on the stage . 01:00:27.505 --> 01:00:28.565 And 01:00:28.665 --> 01:00:32.685 so really, we have to be very realistic in that 01:00:33.025 --> 01:00:37.245 and you need to evaluate your readiness. 01:00:38.745 --> 01:00:40.085 Hit us with your questions. Yes. 01:00:40.085 --> 01:00:42.245 There's one, I think, right next to you. Perfect. 1358 01:00:43.495 --> 01:00:45.885 Thank you. 01:00:46.065 --> 01:00:48.725 I was interested to hear the comment about potential shift in business model, 01:00:48.825 --> 01:00:51.245 Joe, because I think consultancy is going to be a really 01:00:51.445 --> 01:00:52.525 interesting area 01:00:52.705 --> 01:00:54.365 as AI progresses. 01:00:54.385 --> 01:00:58.045 So could you just give me some thoughts on what kinds 01:00:58.045 --> 01:00:59.325 of business models it might shift to? 01:00:59.325 --> 01:01:00.965 Because obviously a fee for time, is an obvious one, 01:01:00.965 --> 01:01:03.325 but that is fundamentally going to be under threat, 01:01:03.445 --> 01:01:04.565 I suspect, in certain areas. 01:01:04.565 --> 01:01:05.645 Have you got any views on that? 01:01:06.165 --> 01:01:10.005 I absolutely do. So I say this sometimes publicly 01:01:10.025 --> 01:01:12.525 and then I get notes from my partners 01:01:12.645 --> 01:01:13.965 that I have to stop saying this out loud. 01:01:14.065 --> 01:01:15.165 But I think rates 01:01:15.265 --> 01:01:18.245 for hours is the worst economic business model exchange 01:01:18.245 --> 01:01:19.685 that we've created in history. 01:01:20.185 --> 01:01:22.965 It is just, if you asked me to rank the 24 hours, 01:01:23.125 --> 01:01:24.245 I spent the last 24 01:01:24.265 --> 01:01:26.805 and tell you which ones are worth, whatever my bill rate is 01:01:26.985 --> 01:01:28.965 and which ones are not, I'd have a hard time doing that. 01:01:29.505 --> 01:01:31.525 It is just very, very difficult. 01:01:31.525 --> 01:01:32.885 It has to be outcomes based 01:01:33.305 --> 01:01:36.405 and that is already happening, by the way, in some 01:01:36.405 --> 01:01:38.965 of our businesses around the world, 60 to 70% 01:01:38.965 --> 01:01:42.325 of our revenue today is outcomes oriented with our clients. 01:01:42.545 --> 01:01:44.205 So here's what we're promising to deliver. 01:01:44.385 --> 01:01:46.045 Here's the value of that client. 01:01:46.045 --> 01:01:47.245 You're going to get the bulk of the value. 01:01:47.245 --> 01:01:48.405 We're going to share a little of the value 01:01:48.585 --> 01:01:49.845 and we move from there. 01:01:49.905 --> 01:01:53.085 So I think that will be the large construct. 01:01:53.385 --> 01:01:55.045 The other really interesting question is 01:01:55.045 --> 01:01:56.085 about, is about jobs. 01:01:56.365 --> 01:01:59.685 I've been with the firm for 32 years. 01:01:59.925 --> 01:02:02.205 I love the place, I've lost all objectivity about it. 01:02:02.465 --> 01:02:05.285 But one of the things I love most about it, it is an engine 01:02:05.285 --> 01:02:06.285 for people's growth. 01:02:06.825 --> 01:02:08.085 It is the reason I've been there. 01:02:08.105 --> 01:02:10.165 You take people that are at the very beginning 01:02:10.165 --> 01:02:13.245 of their career and you give them a practical education 01:02:13.245 --> 01:02:14.725 and delivery across businesses 01:02:14.725 --> 01:02:15.805 and you grow them through their career. 01:02:16.745 --> 01:02:18.845 We are under challenge as to what that's going to look like 01:02:19.010 --> 01:02:21.925 because a lot of those entry-level staff were coming in, 01:02:21.995 --> 01:02:24.245 they're coming in to do work that is now going 01:02:24.245 --> 01:02:25.325 to be delivered by AI. 01:02:25.795 --> 01:02:29.045 What I think will happen, all the predictions worth exactly 01:02:29.045 --> 01:02:31.365 what predictions are usually worth on a stage of a panel. 01:02:31.665 --> 01:02:32.845 But what I think will happen is 01:02:32.845 --> 01:02:34.125 the triangle will move up, right? 01:02:34.145 --> 01:02:35.605 So it will look a little bit different, 01:02:35.605 --> 01:02:37.365 but will ask something very different 01:02:37.605 --> 01:02:38.885 of those entry-level employees. 01:02:39.015 --> 01:02:40.725 We'll still have plenty of entry-level employees. 01:02:41.015 --> 01:02:42.845 We're just going to ask something very, very different of them. 01:02:42.865 --> 01:02:44.205 So just a couple reactions 01:02:44.225 --> 01:02:45.365 on the consulting front. So 01:02:45.365 --> 01:02:47.085 you still will have entry-level employees? 01:02:47.205 --> 01:02:48.885 Because I always wonder, like if we get rid of them, 01:02:48.915 --> 01:02:50.765 like what is going to be like, or 01:02:50.775 --> 01:02:52.805 who's going to be like the middle leadership, 01:02:52.835 --> 01:02:53.925 like sort of. So just to 01:02:53.925 --> 01:02:56.005 show hands, how many people in the room 01:02:56.065 --> 01:02:57.205 who have employment today 01:02:57.235 --> 01:02:59.565 were not entry-level employees at one point in their 01:02:59.565 --> 01:03:00.565 life? 01:03:01.145 --> 01:03:02.525 So I think we've got to 01:03:02.575 --> 01:03:04.285 confront that reality, right? 01:03:04.345 --> 01:03:06.045 We have to develop talent for the future. 01:03:06.445 --> 01:03:07.725 I do think it's going to look very different. 01:03:07.925 --> 01:03:08.965 I think it's going to look very different. 01:03:08.985 --> 01:03:11.965 By the way, those of you that have children, nephews, 01:03:11.965 --> 01:03:14.445 nieces, neighbors that are in that demographic coming in, 01:03:14.605 --> 01:03:16.805 they are so much smarter than we were first. 01:03:17.465 --> 01:03:20.605 And their expectations of the trade between their career 01:03:20.825 --> 01:03:24.285 and the business are so much more rational than ours were. 01:03:24.285 --> 01:03:26.405 So this is a terrible, 01:03:26.435 --> 01:03:27.565 another terrible story. 01:03:27.865 --> 01:03:29.645 So we had this rule called the Partner 15. 01:03:30.305 --> 01:03:31.765 And the Partner 15 was a rule 01:03:31.765 --> 01:03:33.685 that the staff all talked about, which was, 01:03:33.745 --> 01:03:36.445 you did not leave the client site until 15 minutes 01:03:36.445 --> 01:03:37.965 after the partner went to the parking lot. 01:03:38.115 --> 01:03:39.485 Whether you had any work to do 01:03:39.485 --> 01:03:41.285 or not, that is the stupidest thing ever. 01:03:41.285 --> 01:03:42.525 This is 30 years ago, to be fair. 01:03:42.545 --> 01:03:43.725 But it's the stupidest thing ever. 01:03:44.105 --> 01:03:45.925 But it was because we knew the partner was going to stop 01:03:45.925 --> 01:03:46.965 and talk to the client 12 times 01:03:46.985 --> 01:03:48.845 and nobody wanted to be leaving before the partner. 01:03:49.045 --> 01:03:50.885 I can tell you, our staff today say goodnight 01:03:50.885 --> 01:03:52.045 to me on their way out the door 01:03:52.045 --> 01:03:53.205 if they're ready to call their day. 01:03:53.625 --> 01:03:54.765 And that's a good thing. 01:03:54.765 --> 01:03:56.925 That is a good cultural change in our business. 01:03:57.345 --> 01:04:00.285 So I absolutely think we not only need 01:04:00.285 --> 01:04:02.445 entry-level talent, we need to now start 01:04:02.465 --> 01:04:04.525 to invest in entry-level talent. 01:04:04.915 --> 01:04:06.925 That investment will pay off in organisations over time. 01:04:08.185 --> 01:04:09.645 One in the front. 01:04:13.015 --> 01:04:15.045 Thanks for the interesting discussion. 01:04:15.195 --> 01:04:18.045 Just a quick question is talk about changing business model, 01:04:18.195 --> 01:04:19.805 talk about change early employee, 01:04:20.115 --> 01:04:21.405 what about school education? 01:04:21.505 --> 01:04:24.405 How we can prepare kids in education with school, 01:04:24.785 --> 01:04:27.325 not just become dummy just using AI, 01:04:27.425 --> 01:04:28.845 but being interesting critic 01:04:29.465 --> 01:04:32.685 and challenging a new worker tomorrow? Thank you. 01:04:32.685 --> 01:04:37.645 This is yours. 01:04:37.645 --> 01:04:38.845 That's a really hard question. 01:04:39.115 --> 01:04:40.115 How did you solve that problem? 01:04:40.165 --> 01:04:42.205 01:04:42.385 --> 01:04:46.685 I would love to be talking about and answering 01:04:46.685 --> 01:04:48.645 that in past tense, so I would love that. 01:04:48.785 --> 01:04:52.405 But, from this year, actually, 01:04:52.405 --> 01:04:54.565 there are quite a few countries 01:04:54.745 --> 01:04:58.125 who embedded AI officially to their education curriculum. 01:04:58.505 --> 01:04:59.765 And one 01:04:59.765 --> 01:05:03.125 of the countries is China from the elementary school. 01:05:03.705 --> 01:05:05.645 And then there is Estonia and Singapore 01:05:05.905 --> 01:05:08.845 and a few other countries starting from 01:05:08.985 --> 01:05:10.845 middle school and high school. 01:05:11.105 --> 01:05:14.765 But when we talk about AI in education, again, 01:05:14.765 --> 01:05:16.245 it's the chicken and egg problem. 01:05:16.665 --> 01:05:21.325 we don't have AI trainers, we don't have AI trainers. 01:05:21.345 --> 01:05:23.205 And that's where we have to start. 01:05:23.585 --> 01:05:28.165 And actually this summer we've trained 01:05:28.375 --> 01:05:30.325 Mongolia's first 500 trainers. 01:05:30.345 --> 01:05:32.325 And in 2026, we're going to train 01:05:32.905 --> 01:05:36.125 1000 AI trainers across Africa 01:05:36.265 --> 01:05:38.405 and Central Asia and Southeast Asia. 01:05:39.465 --> 01:05:43.805 But I see these teachers after 01:05:43.805 --> 01:05:46.845 they're trained, they build their own models. 01:05:46.995 --> 01:05:51.285 They created their AI assistant, they created their 01:05:52.075 --> 01:05:54.565 chatbot with parents, chatbot with students. 01:05:55.065 --> 01:05:58.965 And we've actually examined few 01:05:58.965 --> 01:06:01.045 of those, and it's very, very practical. 01:06:01.105 --> 01:06:04.845 It doesn't look very good, UI UXY, 01:06:04.985 --> 01:06:07.245 but it's very practical 01:06:07.345 --> 01:06:09.285 and it's really helping them save time. 01:06:09.385 --> 01:06:13.725 And especially countries where there are so many kids 01:06:13.985 --> 01:06:15.245 and maybe one teacher. 01:06:15.585 --> 01:06:19.285 I think, to be frank, where we have 01:06:19.285 --> 01:06:22.605 to start in education is we have to start 01:06:22.665 --> 01:06:25.485 by training the trainers 01:06:25.545 --> 01:06:27.805 before anyone else, before anyone else. 01:06:27.985 --> 01:06:29.965 And that's very important. 01:06:30.145 --> 01:06:34.085 And adding to that, I just want to bring up the story. 01:06:34.385 --> 01:06:38.085 And I've been running Girl's Code program for five years. 01:06:38.325 --> 01:06:41.125 I come from nomadic family. I own 300 sheep. 01:06:41.345 --> 01:06:44.005 If you are ever in Mongolia, I will make you barbecue 01:06:44.005 --> 01:06:45.645 with that. 01:06:45.865 --> 01:06:49.925 And I'm very proud to 01:06:50.025 --> 01:06:51.965 to come from where I came from. 01:06:52.225 --> 01:06:55.285 And, but I've always wanted to give access to girls 01:06:55.745 --> 01:06:57.765 who are living in the nomadic community. 01:06:57.865 --> 01:07:00.045 And we started this bootcamp. 01:07:00.345 --> 01:07:02.805 We've trained 150 girls so far, 01:07:02.805 --> 01:07:05.325 and at this very moment we're training 200 more. 01:07:06.225 --> 01:07:09.205 But these girls who have never been to the city, 01:07:09.315 --> 01:07:10.765 they come for this bootcamp. 01:07:10.955 --> 01:07:13.485 When they go back, they start their own AI club. 01:07:13.675 --> 01:07:15.445 They teach AI to other students. 01:07:16.185 --> 01:07:20.925 And one of our girls is studying at NYU as a 01:07:20.985 --> 01:07:23.645 data scientist with a hundred percent scholarship. 01:07:23.825 --> 01:07:25.085 I have a lot of girls 01:07:25.225 --> 01:07:29.085 who are working part-time paying off their family debts. 01:07:29.265 --> 01:07:32.765 I have some girl who spoke at AI 01:07:32.825 --> 01:07:35.885 for Good Summit in Geneva in front of thousands of people 01:07:36.255 --> 01:07:38.645 after Geoffrey Hinton spoke. 01:07:38.825 --> 01:07:42.765 So this is what happens when you give access to those 01:07:42.865 --> 01:07:44.045 who do not have access. 01:07:44.145 --> 01:07:45.965 And this is why, 01:07:46.185 --> 01:07:48.485 and every time I talk about this, 01:07:48.785 --> 01:07:51.805 you'll see this is a nice story and you go out and forget. 01:07:52.625 --> 01:07:56.005 But why do you have to, why does it matter to you? 01:07:56.145 --> 01:08:00.765 It matters because world is small and somehow you connect 01:08:00.765 --> 01:08:03.885 and somehow you find mutual friends 01:08:04.105 --> 01:08:06.445 and unexpectedly it works like that. 01:08:06.625 --> 01:08:10.285 And when we give access to these kids in Africa, Asia, 01:08:10.645 --> 01:08:15.325 anywhere in the world, it really embraces 01:08:15.425 --> 01:08:17.805 and the multiplier effect is just crazy. 01:08:18.235 --> 01:08:19.765 I've never really imagined, 01:08:19.945 --> 01:08:22.925 and I never imagined I would be doing this for so long 01:08:23.585 --> 01:08:26.805 and really getting into that, but just looking at the girls 01:08:26.945 --> 01:08:28.005 and how they're doing 01:08:28.215 --> 01:08:30.365 after the program is just life changing. 01:08:31.385 --> 01:08:34.885 So, I think, we have to 01:08:34.985 --> 01:08:36.845 invest into our kids 01:08:36.985 --> 01:08:39.325 and we have to train the teachers first. 01:08:39.665 --> 01:08:41.965 So we have to train the kids for like, AI skills, 01:08:42.105 --> 01:08:45.045 but also like maybe thinking through like maybe 01:08:45.045 --> 01:08:46.885 that not AI will solve everything. 01:08:46.955 --> 01:08:48.805 Like every pitch is a good pitch of AI tools. 01:08:48.805 --> 01:08:51.685 How do you like, retain the critical thinking, right? 01:08:51.685 --> 01:08:54.685 Like when you can like so easily outsource your homework, 01:08:55.305 --> 01:08:56.605 to a chatbot. 01:08:56.835 --> 01:08:59.085 It's interesting, Hardy 01:08:59.085 --> 01:09:01.485 you were talking about the first memo that you sent on 01:09:01.705 --> 01:09:03.085 ChatGPT. 01:09:03.225 --> 01:09:06.125 If you go to, the US University system as an example, 01:09:06.625 --> 01:09:08.485 that was the first memo every president 01:09:08.505 --> 01:09:09.805 of every university sent. 01:09:09.805 --> 01:09:13.045 And it was whatever every professor started with, 01:09:13.045 --> 01:09:15.285 as you cannot use these tools in my classroom. 01:09:15.945 --> 01:09:18.445 And the good news, because I'm an optimist, the good news is 01:09:18.445 --> 01:09:20.085 that conversation has changed pretty rapidly. 01:09:20.595 --> 01:09:22.045 It's how do you use them responsibly? 01:09:22.065 --> 01:09:23.245 How do I know when you're using them? 01:09:23.265 --> 01:09:25.445 How do I make sure that you're learning in that process? 01:09:26.065 --> 01:09:27.565 And I think that's good news. 01:09:27.665 --> 01:09:30.405 Not only because the conversation is a much more intelligent 01:09:30.405 --> 01:09:32.245 conversation, frankly, because they're using them anyway. 01:09:32.885 --> 01:09:35.525 I think the other part of that conversation is as soon 01:09:35.525 --> 01:09:37.205 as they get to us or to you 01:09:37.225 --> 01:09:39.245 as employers, we need them to use it. 01:09:39.345 --> 01:09:41.325 We need them to use it in responsible, thoughtful ways. 01:09:41.385 --> 01:09:43.485 So I think particularly in the university systems, 01:09:43.485 --> 01:09:45.605 in the higher education systems, you're seeing the shift. 01:09:46.105 --> 01:09:49.085 But that is a slow boat to change. 01:09:49.105 --> 01:09:51.045 If that was a container ship, it would be really, really, 01:09:51.045 --> 01:09:52.445 really, really large and slow. 01:09:53.025 --> 01:09:54.845 So that's going to take a while. 01:09:54.865 --> 01:09:57.765 But I do think you're seeing a recognition 01:09:57.905 --> 01:09:59.005 in the university systems. 01:09:59.365 --> 01:10:00.965 I think there's a question way in the back. 01:10:01.555 --> 01:10:03.725 Yeah. Last row. 01:10:04.065 --> 01:10:06.525 This question is going to 01:10:07.245 --> 01:10:09.205 simplify a very complex question. 01:10:10.025 --> 01:10:12.365 As AI advances, 01:10:12.465 --> 01:10:15.125 we are looking at a cultural change within the companies. 01:10:15.905 --> 01:10:18.565 My question is, which is 01:10:18.735 --> 01:10:20.845 the better approach would be — one that 01:10:21.525 --> 01:10:24.725 recognises the paradigms change one 01:10:24.805 --> 01:10:26.365 that goes from the bottom up 01:10:26.585 --> 01:10:29.685 or wholescale change within the organisation? 01:10:29.745 --> 01:10:33.205 Or is it more advisable to go use case by use case 01:10:33.225 --> 01:10:36.125 and let the chain creep into the culture as it happens? 01:10:38.105 --> 01:10:40.085 So anyone want to take that? 01:10:41.115 --> 01:10:43.485 I think all of us need to pitch in here. 01:10:44.265 --> 01:10:47.205 I think there is a, 01:10:49.265 --> 01:10:52.285 I'm not sure that there's a one-size fits all. 01:10:52.585 --> 01:10:55.885 I think AI, we have to think 01:10:55.885 --> 01:10:58.685 about AI in culture, in societal culture. 01:10:59.405 --> 01:11:00.685 I think that the way that 01:11:02.265 --> 01:11:04.125 and German management system works 01:11:04.905 --> 01:11:07.245 and the way that an American management system works 01:11:07.465 --> 01:11:11.805 and the way that, we manage companies 01:11:11.805 --> 01:11:15.285 in Africa or companies are managed in Southeast Asia. 01:11:15.535 --> 01:11:18.085 There's a cultural overlay 01:11:18.085 --> 01:11:20.885 that exists within that society that we have to recognise. 01:11:21.345 --> 01:11:25.685 And that already is generally within the organisation. 01:11:26.425 --> 01:11:31.285 So, to use the example of 01:11:31.325 --> 01:11:33.205 I think some of you have read about 01:11:33.205 --> 01:11:36.685 the time when Korea Airlines was changing 01:11:37.115 --> 01:11:40.085 when they had a lot of accidents 01:11:40.555 --> 01:11:44.925 because the first officer would be deferring to the captain 01:11:45.585 --> 01:11:47.005 who is a lot more experienced. 01:11:47.745 --> 01:11:49.565 But the first officer would see 01:11:49.565 --> 01:11:51.005 that the plane is going to crash. 01:11:51.785 --> 01:11:55.565 But because they thought the captain is very experienced, 01:11:56.475 --> 01:11:58.565 they kept quiet, they were not allowed to speak. 01:11:58.705 --> 01:12:01.405 And unfortunately, Korea Airlines went 01:12:01.405 --> 01:12:04.325 through this period, but it was very cultural. 01:12:04.785 --> 01:12:08.165 It was because, at that time in Korea, people, 01:12:08.585 --> 01:12:10.405 you deferred to your elders 01:12:10.425 --> 01:12:12.525 and you didn't question authority. 01:12:13.625 --> 01:12:18.245 So I think, yes, AI is going to change the way 01:12:18.275 --> 01:12:20.565 that we need to run companies as leaders. 01:12:21.225 --> 01:12:23.205 But it cannot exist in a vacuum. 01:12:23.665 --> 01:12:27.685 It has to take into account the cultural nuances. 01:12:28.265 --> 01:12:32.645 And in my specific case, in Africa where, 01:12:32.705 --> 01:12:35.325 as I said before, very hierarchical society, 01:12:35.385 --> 01:12:37.125 people defer to their elders. 01:12:37.985 --> 01:12:42.485 If I can change the way that my leadership team is behaving, 01:12:42.505 --> 01:12:44.005 if they're embracing learning, 01:12:44.345 --> 01:12:47.845 if they're embracing experimentation, it becomes much easier 01:12:47.945 --> 01:12:51.205 for the rest of the organisation to pick up that culture. 01:12:52.235 --> 01:12:54.965 What it's worth, I agree with that completely. 01:12:55.025 --> 01:12:58.885 And I think there is an element 01:12:58.945 --> 01:13:00.805 of the culture that exists in the organisation already 01:13:00.805 --> 01:13:03.085 and how to embrace it to make the change 01:13:03.275 --> 01:13:04.725 work in the organisation. 01:13:04.725 --> 01:13:06.685 So you have to be reflective of what's going to work 01:13:06.685 --> 01:13:07.685 and what's not going to work. 01:13:08.225 --> 01:13:10.925 But I do think, we have a tendency to think about this 01:13:10.925 --> 01:13:11.925 as an either or 01:13:11.925 --> 01:13:13.485 it's a top down or it's a bottoms up 01:13:13.485 --> 01:13:14.485 and it's got to be a both. 01:13:15.105 --> 01:13:16.605 And 01:13:16.605 --> 01:13:18.405 I'll pick on the CIOs again because that's always fun. 01:13:18.825 --> 01:13:21.045 The organisational structures 01:13:21.045 --> 01:13:23.885 around IT often about control for lots 01:13:23.885 --> 01:13:25.245 of really good reasons, by the way. 01:13:25.245 --> 01:13:27.645 Yeah. Control and process and etc. 01:13:28.105 --> 01:13:30.325 And what, what happens is when you centralise 01:13:30.325 --> 01:13:34.605 that control too tightly, you risk a disconnect 01:13:34.705 --> 01:13:36.365 to the people that are actually on the front line 01:13:36.365 --> 01:13:38.125 of the business talking to your customers and your clients. 01:13:38.505 --> 01:13:40.165 You risk a disconnect to the people 01:13:40.165 --> 01:13:42.565 that are all at different levels in the organisation. 01:13:43.225 --> 01:13:46.485 And no amount of inspirational leadership is going to break 01:13:46.485 --> 01:13:47.965 that frozen middle problem. 01:13:48.265 --> 01:13:50.565 It just won't, it does not matter what speeches 01:13:51.145 --> 01:13:53.405 the leadership team can give. 01:13:53.465 --> 01:13:56.925 You need that innovation at the edge percolating 01:13:56.925 --> 01:13:58.605 through the organisation because that's really 01:13:58.605 --> 01:13:59.685 what inspires people. 01:13:59.685 --> 01:14:02.205 They get excited not because Atkinson 01:14:02.205 --> 01:14:04.525 in his CAIO job said it, but they get excited 01:14:04.525 --> 01:14:06.565 because somebody they've known for a couple years is now 01:14:06.565 --> 01:14:08.645 being celebrated for a great innovation that they've done. 01:14:08.665 --> 01:14:10.165 So I think you need them both. 01:14:11.335 --> 01:14:14.565 Great last words. Like, I hope we all inspired ou 01:14:14.565 --> 01:14:16.085 with the new playbook and leadership. 01:14:16.105 --> 01:14:19.805 You can go out and lead as you know 01:14:19.865 --> 01:14:21.205 we live throughout unprecedented times, 01:14:21.305 --> 01:14:23.165 but I also wanted to say, we'll be 01:14:23.165 --> 01:14:25.125 around. Like we are closing this panel, 01:14:25.145 --> 01:14:27.005 but we are around here if you have any more 01:14:27.125 --> 01:14:30.285 questions, but like, go out and lead 01:14:30.425 --> 01:14:31.645 and thank you so much for being here.